.38/44 Heavy Duty Transitional?

[flanker08]

I'm turning to the experts here to see if you can give me a little info on my most recent purchase. I believe it is a transitional gun with SN: 600XX. I do not see a prefix on any of the surfaces. I don't believe the grips are original, as they should be diamond magna's. Correct? Also the Barrel and rear of the trigger have the patent date, but there is not date roll-marked onto the hump of the hammer. Should there be? Inside the Ejector Shroud there is a "B" to the left and an "S" to the right of the serial number. This isn't found on the other surfaces leading me to believe this is a transitional model. Any idea on year of manufacture or value? Thanks. Here are the pictures.

 

[dacoontz]

That looks to be a pre-war HD. The bright blue finish, that I think I am seeing on the cylinder, is what convinces me of that the most. And yes, the absence of an S to the left of the serial number also confirms that. The S and diamond inside the ejector rod shroud is a factory work marking. Not sure what was worked on though. The grips are incorrect, too modern. You should have pre-war magnas or service stocks with large medallions. Nice gun!

 

[murphydog]

From the photos, I think this is a pre-war Heavy Duty, likely a 1940 shipped gun. The B in the ejector rod shroud indicated it was originally a blue finish, and I have read (but can't remember) about the meaning of the nearby S. You are correct about the stocks, this one would have had service stocks with silver medallions or pre-war Magnas with the uncheckered wood diamond around the screw. Hope this is helpful.

 

[flanker08]

More Pictures

More Pictures:

 

[Art Doc]

Early 1940 gun. Post war would have a letter S in the serial.

 

[Doc44]

The S followed by a diamond indicates it was refinished by S&W in standard blue at some point. There may be a date (9 39 for example) stamped on the grip frame and there may be another "S diamond" stamped on the grip frame also.

Bill

 

[DCWilson]

Kind of a funny spread of the digits of the serial number on the back of the cylinder. Usually all the numbers are stamped between two charge holes, rather than three and two. Look at the underside of the ejector star to see if it is numbered. If not, I think the gun got a fresh cylinder assembly on a trip back to the factory.

The absence of a patent notice stamp on the hammer suggests postwar production. The trigger, with its stamp, would be prewar.

The stocks are postwar.

Can you follow up on Bill's observation and check the frame under the stocks for date stamps? I'm kind of hunching that this would be an early postwar return for service. (I have a gun that went back in 1946, had barrel and cylinder replaced, and each was renumbered to tie it to the frame. That didn't happen with new part installations at later dates.)

 

[flanker08]

The under grip frame markings are as follows. On the Left hand side on the front strap side is marked: 32968. On the back strap side it is marked is the "S" and Diamond. The Righside of the frame is marked with the "B." On the backside of the ejector star and on the face of the cylinder behind the ejector star, it appears to be marked with the "S" and diamond. The underside of the Ejector star is very faint, but I believe I can make it out, whereas the cylinder itself is very obvious. How does this affect the value? Anyone feel like throwing a number out there? I feel that this is definitely a Letter Candidate. Thanks.

 

[dacoontz]

The S followed by a diamond indicates it was refinished by S&W in standard blue at some point. There may be a date (9 39 for example) stamped on the grip frame and there may be another "S diamond" stamped on the grip frame also.

Bill

Bill,
I have posted a number of guns on here with this same marking on every part of a couple of my guns. I was told by others that it signified major work and likely replaced parts. Your information above is much easier to accept as many of those parts had matching serial numbers on my guns and the replacment parts theory didn't seem correct to me. I would be a happy camper if the "S diamond" was indeed just a refinish marking. I would never think to question your expertise but simply wanted to clarify what you mentioned and make sure I heard right since I have been told differently in the past.

On a side note, I mentioned early that the cylinder looks like the pre-war blue finish that I see on HD's. If this was refinished in standard blue then I guess I am seeing things or is the standard blue finish the same as the pre-war finish? I assumed the standard was the dull matte type finish we see on transitional HD's.

 

[flanker08]

Does anyone else have any insight?
Did S&W use a 4 digit date stamp? This would mean this was refinished/reworked March, 29 1968. In my limited research I have only seen 3 digit date stamps. Was S&W still using the "S" Diamond marking in 1968?
As dacootz mentioned does the color of the Blue appear to be in line with being refinished in 1968? Thanks

 

[1Aspenhill]

I can't say that I've seen a 5 digit stamp like yours. I have seen a 4 digit when the first 2 were either Oct, Nov or Dec and then the year. If you letter it, send the pic of the date stamp in and ask Roy what he thinks.
Bill

 

[flanker08]

Thanks for your help Bill.