38-44 load chrono data

[38SPL HV]

Finally got some chrono data but limited to five rounds using friends setup.

This is not a recommended load. I do not take any responsibility for it. Use in my heavy frame 357 4 inch only:

5.5 grs Unique, 158 gr Dardas SWC (Bnh 16) (Speer 38 Spl brass and CCI 500 primers) avg five shots from S&W Mod 28 with 4 inch measured approx 985 fps. Bet it would be near the Remington 38-44 type loads from the 1960s (1,090 fps, 158 gr lead factory tested in 6 inch barrels) Load very accurate also.

Data derived from old Lyman and Hornady reloading manuals.

 

[moxie]

Derived is right.

That load exceeds Lyman #46 published data.

Not sure why you would want to do this in the first place, and why you would want to expose it to possible misuse by others in the second place.

 

[STCM(SW)]

Old Elmer Kieth used such a load in his .38 Spl N frames.
But what would he know about reloading handgun ammo....

 

[cowboy4evr]

People make the comment that Elmer Keith blew up a lot of guns . The only guy that I know of that blew up a lot of guns was Mr. Casull developing his 454 round . I have read Elmers books and he talks about blowing up one gun , a SAA Colt 45 on 4th of July , prior to his deciding the 44 special would be better for his development . The colt was loaded with black powder that he had ground to a very fine consistency .
The model S&W 28 was designed for the 357 magnum and I seriously doubt that 5.5 grs. of unique comes anywhere close to the same pressure . The max pressure and load data for the 38special has gone up and down like a yo-yo over the years .

 

[alwslate]

5.5 grs Unique with a 158 gr cast bullet is probably in the 38 spl +P
pressure range but well under the 20,000 psi limit. And no it doesn't
equal the old 38/44 ballistics. I remember way back in the 60s when
many handloaders used 5.5 grs unique with the 173 gr SWC and 6.0
grs with a 158 gr cast bullet as their standard loads for K frames. I
have never seen or even heard of any guns being damaged by these
loads.

 

[loc n load]

38's and Unique

I went and dug out a Lyman IDEAL HANDBOOK edition 38. It lists 38 special loads with 158 gr bullets with 5.4 of Unique.with a MV of 1000 fps. I too can remember these loads being SOP back in the day. I have also shot a ton of them and still use this load regularly.

 

[OFT II]

5.2 grains of Unique is my home roll 38 Special +P load with a 158 grain lswc slug. It's still a long way from my 38/44 load.

 

[Homie]

Nobody's mentioned SPEER #8 yet!

 

[SAFireman]

Nobody's mentioned SPEER #8 yet!

I am surprised that 'The Load' has not reared it's head yet

 

[johngalt]

I am surprised that 'The Load' has not reared it's head yet

Since the powder used for 'The Load' has been discontinued, it will be difficult to duplicate....

My Speer #8 lists 6.0 gr Unique as the max for 158 gr bullets. A bit hotter than I want to shoot in my .38

 

[38SPL HV]

My load is for my 357 Mag N frame only. Do not use in 38 Spl revolver.

 

[alwslate]

I went and dug out a Lyman IDEAL HANDBOOK edition 38. It lists 38 special loads with 158 gr bullets with 5.4 of Unique.with a MV of 1000 fps. I too can remember these loads being SOP back in the day. I have also shot a ton of them and still use this load regularly.

That's a good load, probably +P at a bit above the 17,000 psi
limit for std pressure but well below the +p limit of 20,000
psi. But realize that the listed MV of 1000 fps would be from
a test barrel and the typical 4" barrel revolver will not yield
anywhere close to 1000 fps MV with that load.

 

[38SPL HV]

Lyman 44 has same 5.4 grs load and 158 gr RN. Velocity 1,000 fps from actual revolver, 6 inch S&W Mod 14.

I've seen tests here also with 5.4 grs in excess of 1,000 fps in 6 inch revolver.

 

[AZretired]

Lyman 44 has same 5.4 grs load and 158 gr RN. Velocity 1,000 fps from actual revolver, 6 inch S&W Mod 14.

I've seen tests here also with 5.4 grs in excess of 1,000 fps in 6 inch revolver.

Back when I started reloading in the mid-70's this was a pretty standard loading.

I know it's been mentioned before but there is a published advertisement by Smith & Wesson that's dates to post WW2 but before model #s that clearly says the 38-44 is safe to shoot in K Frames of the day. So I don't think the load stated would be unsafe in modern K Frames.

 

[alwslate]

Lyman 44 has same 5.4 grs load and 158 gr RN. Velocity 1,000 fps from actual revolver, 6 inch S&W Mod 14.

I've seen tests here also with 5.4 grs in excess of 1,000 fps in 6 inch revolver.

I don't like Unique for several reasons. One of those reasons
is that in many 38 spl handloads chronographed with it over
the years I have always experienced large ESs and lower
average velocities than I see listed in manuals and claimed
by others. I don't see these problems with other powders
using the same loading techniques. Makes me wonder if all
handload velocities listed here are actually chronographed.
I've bought my last can of Unique.

 

[DWalt]

For many, many years, probably 90% of my handgun loads in every caliber from .32 ACP to .44 Magnum have used either Bullseye or Unique. I never had the slightest reason to badmouth either of them. Actually, Bullseye and Unique are identical, other than for the flake thickness.

The older Lyman handbooks list heavy (.38-44 level) Unique loads in .38 Special going up to 6.4 grains as producing 1154 ft/sec.

 

[38SPL HV]

DWalt

I have Lyman 41 - same data. They were silent on barrel length, but I estimate based on velocities obtained that it was from a 6 inch test barrel.

Appreciate your opinion or any knowledge on barrel length used.

 

[125JHP]

Since the powder used for 'The Load' has been discontinued, it will be difficult to duplicate....

My Speer #8 lists 6.0 gr Unique as the max for 158 gr bullets. A bit hotter than I want to shoot in my .38

Sierra #3 lists 6.4 unique with a 158 JSP

 

[DWalt]

"Sierra #3 lists 6.4 unique with a 158 JSP"

Not sure which edition of the Sierra manual I have, but it is copyright dated as 1978. It does provide a .38 Special load using a 158 grain JSP bullet and 6.4 grains of Unique at 950 ft/sec. It states that a 6" K-38 revolver was used for the tests. The Lyman manual does not provide a test gun or its barrel length.

I have fired some .38 Special loads in K-frame S&Ws using 7.0 grains of Unique and lead 158 grain bullets with no problems. MVs were in the low 1100 ft/sec range, essentially like the .38-44, likely with chamber pressures to match.

 

[cowboy4evr]

I have shot 7.0 grs of unique in 357 cases with a 158 gr cast bullet but never in a 38 special case . I have the speer #8 and it lists 6.0 grs max . Ken Waters stated in his book " Pet Loads " 11.0 grs /2400 was his fav 38 special load . I don't know how that compares to 38-44 loads ?