tlay
US Veteran
I am getting ready to load for my 1899 Navy marked HE. I have never loaded this round. Any suggestions on bullets, powder, dies, etc. There are not many reloading manuals out there that has any info. on this cartridge.
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38 Long Colt Recipes
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BearBio
Member
Good luck. I've loaded one batch for an 1877 Lightning. A REAL pain to find things for. I think (IIRC) I used a hollow based 38 spl. to obdurate (like a 38 S & W) and Trail Boss powder. Starline brass (IF you can find it)==it's expensive. May take a couple of days but I'll look up my load (it's downstairs in the back of the ammo locker). Dies (I THINK) are Reddings.
I'll see what I can do.
I'll see what I can do.
BearBio
Member
OK
Midway has dies. RCBS are $165 and Lees are $32 (in stock, NOW!).
Midway has Brass (Get it while you can--I'm gonna order some)
America's gun store has a dozen boxes in stock. Everybody else is sold out as far as I can tell.
I'd buy a couple of boxes of loaded and save the brass. get the other stuff as soon as you can!
Midway has dies. RCBS are $165 and Lees are $32 (in stock, NOW!).
Midway has Brass (Get it while you can--I'm gonna order some)
America's gun store has a dozen boxes in stock. Everybody else is sold out as far as I can tell.
I'd buy a couple of boxes of loaded and save the brass. get the other stuff as soon as you can!
OP
tlay
US Veteran
I found 200 cases from a guy on gunbroker. I found the dies on eBay. Now my question is, are the bullets the same as the 38 special? I checked the cylinder and it comes out at .358.
According to wiki it's a .361 diameter bullet.
ColbyBruce
Member
I think Bass Pro Shop in Lawrenceville, GA has that ammo in stock.
The .38 Long Colt was once used by the U.S. military and is the parent to the .38 S&W special. It is basically the same except it is shorter than the special.
Old brass and old data would be somewhat different than new brass and data and the two should not be mixed unless the loader knows and understands the differences. Brass can be made from .38 special brass by simply trimming it to length. Data should be plentiful, at least for lead bullets, from most powder suppliers/manufacturers in their "cowboy" data areas.
My biggest concern in this area would be the age of the firearm being used and would it be safe, or advisable, to shoot it with smokeless powders? Either way, I'd stick to the lowest charges to keep pressures down.
Old brass and old data would be somewhat different than new brass and data and the two should not be mixed unless the loader knows and understands the differences. Brass can be made from .38 special brass by simply trimming it to length. Data should be plentiful, at least for lead bullets, from most powder suppliers/manufacturers in their "cowboy" data areas.
My biggest concern in this area would be the age of the firearm being used and would it be safe, or advisable, to shoot it with smokeless powders? Either way, I'd stick to the lowest charges to keep pressures down.
DWalt
Member
It's very simple. Most, if not all, revolvers in .38 LC have bored-through cylinder chambers, and will accept .38 Special cases. So just load minimum loads (say 2.8 grains) of Bullseye and a 148 grain hollow-base lead wadcutter bullet. That takes care of the oversize bore problem. If you do, for some reason, choose to use .38 LC brass (actually just a slightly shortened .38 Special), do exactly the same thing. No need for .38 LC dies, as .38 Special dies work as well.
No one has any business in shooting anything other than the load described in any of the old .38 LC revolvers.
No one has any business in shooting anything other than the load described in any of the old .38 LC revolvers.
OP
tlay
US Veteran
In my 1899 Navy the cylinders are not bored through. A 38 special round will not go all the way in. It is about a 1/10" short of going in all the way. You can see in the cylinder it is not bored out.
Will the .358 lead bullets work with a light charge of bullseye or should I find .361 bullets and black powder?
Will the .358 lead bullets work with a light charge of bullseye or should I find .361 bullets and black powder?
DWalt
Member
Trim back .38 Spl cases and use hollow base lead wadcutter bullets - for the Minie Ball expansion effect to fill the bore. Black powder is not needed or recommended, instead use Bullseye, AA #2, Red Dot, 231, etc, with minimum loads given in manuals for .38 Special.
OP
tlay
US Veteran
Will the .358 bullets fit in 38 long colt cases? I have some coming.
LaVistaBill
SWCA Member
.38 LC
I use Black Hills factory loads in .38 LC for Cowboy Action Shooting (NCOWS) in an 1895 Colt DA revolver. They use a 158 gr. lead bullet and I've had a little tipping with the round. I've also shot .38 Short in it and this load (Remington) has a 130 gr. bullet and it seems to stabilize better in this revolver.
I use Black Hills factory loads in .38 LC for Cowboy Action Shooting (NCOWS) in an 1895 Colt DA revolver. They use a 158 gr. lead bullet and I've had a little tipping with the round. I've also shot .38 Short in it and this load (Remington) has a 130 gr. bullet and it seems to stabilize better in this revolver.
DWalt
Member
.38 Short Colt is still available, but most retailers will not carry it. It's a still shorter round than the .38 Long Colt, and I think it uses a lighter bullet. Ballistics are about like the .38 S&W, and it can actually be used in .38 S&W revolvers, even though it's slightly undersized. .38 SC can be used in any .38 Special or .357 Mag revolver (or .38 LC revolver) if someone wants a very light load.
Early .38 LC revolvers used a cartridge with a heeled bullet which was about .375" diameter. I believe later ones used a .360 bullet. No matter, the hollow-base lead full wadcutter bullet will always be the best reloading choice for use in any .38 LC revolver.
Early .38 LC revolvers used a cartridge with a heeled bullet which was about .375" diameter. I believe later ones used a .360 bullet. No matter, the hollow-base lead full wadcutter bullet will always be the best reloading choice for use in any .38 LC revolver.
Some of the information above contradicted what I could remember, so I pulled out some respectable resources, such as "Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers" by Julian Hatcher, and "Handloading Ammunition" by J. R. Mattern. I'm not going to print everything, mostly because the 2 year old "Godzilla Destroyer" is coming to visit...and I have to hide.
The .38 Long Colt was originally made to take a hollow based .357 diameter bullet. Bores were oversized and depended on the hollow base to expand to fit the bore. If you load a bullet that has a diameter large enough, it would have to be forced into the cylinder and would raise pressures quite a bit. Of course that would depend on the individual gun, but I would stick with the .358" bullets until you figure that out.
The original factory loads appeared to use Bullseye powder. I'm not going to give the charge because they don't give details about the type of case heads used, so I'm going to assume they were of a balloon type. And again, I would be worried about the heat treatment of your individual firearm and how much pressure it would take to do permanent damage to it. Maximum pressure, according to J.R. Mattern, was 12,000 lbs. I'd try to get as low under that as I could.
I shoot .38 LCs a lot, through a .38 special. I have a Lee die set, which didn't cost nearly as much as they appear to be now, but the dies as marked are: Sizer- "38-357", Expander- "38-S&W", Seat/Crimp- "38 Auto".
OP
tlay
US Veteran
Thanks for all the info. I will use a hollow base wadcutter bullet in the long colt cases. I will start with 2.6grs. of bullseye.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Hodgdon has load data for the .38 Long Colt using a 125gr and 150gr .358" lead bullet and data for 5 powders. Since you found brass you should have no problems at all loading safe ammo. Any SPP will be fine and as for dies, according to Post #3 Midway has them in stock. Lee dies are just fine, I use them for all my handgun loading.
italiansport
Member
I just checked the half dozen revolvers I have that are chambered in 38 Long Colt and they all will accept a 38 Spl. I don't shoot these very often but wen I do it's with a light target load of 3gr of Winchester 231 and a 148 HB wadcutter.
Jim
Jim
Lead Bullets
I load my antique revolvers with HodgdonTriple7 as a black powder substitute. Heel bottom lead bullets can be had thru G.A.D, they make just about any obsolete lead bullet that you want. They will even make them up for you, and 38Colt is on their list. Just google GAD ammo.
I load my antique revolvers with HodgdonTriple7 as a black powder substitute. Heel bottom lead bullets can be had thru G.A.D, they make just about any obsolete lead bullet that you want. They will even make them up for you, and 38Colt is on their list. Just google GAD ammo.
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On .38 Long Colt usage
For those wanting to shoot their early Colt Double Action Army Navy models beginning with the Model 1889, a useful piece information is that from the Model 1894 onward, these guns were designed for smokeless powder, this according to the Army Manual issued for these guns. (I have a copy of it). I use the hollow based .38 Special wadcuttters in my 1896 and they are pretty accurate and eliminate the keyholing and accuracy problem I had with it.
For those wanting to shoot their early Colt Double Action Army Navy models beginning with the Model 1889, a useful piece information is that from the Model 1894 onward, these guns were designed for smokeless powder, this according to the Army Manual issued for these guns. (I have a copy of it). I use the hollow based .38 Special wadcuttters in my 1896 and they are pretty accurate and eliminate the keyholing and accuracy problem I had with it.
Model19man
SWCA Member
Hmmm their reviews are pretty awful. https://www.bbb.org/us/wi/medford/profile/ammunition-supplies/gad-custom-reloaded-cartridges-0694-1000015977
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