.38 S&W correct dies

[CCAMERA50]

hallo,

recently i started to reload my new/old WebleyMkIV 38/200

The 169/A mould ( from NEI ) give me a very nice 200 gr .361 bullet but i still have some aesthetic problem with the round
( the result it is every time ...a hourglass shape )

I'm pretty sure it is due to the Lee sizing die that "squeeze"
in excess the case ( Starline) - and when i set the .361 bullet ...voilà the hourglass

i also tried to set the die a little higher , but in these way it do not size correctely the case ( too wide at the bottom ,
so the result it is a round very "hard to chamber" )

the ext . diameters of the case after sizing is .386 the bottom and .379 the mouth (i know it should be .3865 and .3855 )

could be wrong the die ? ( it is "marked" 38 AUTO )

some of you know if there is other dies ( Redding / Lymann / RCBS ) that work better with this caliber ?

thank in advance for a help


CC

 

[ronnie gore]

38 s&w

I used to load that caliber, and I used lee dies but they were marked 38 s&w, and never had a problem with the hour glass shape. I also cast over sized bullets.
you should call lee about the die being marked 38 auto, maybe they will send you the correct sizer.

 

[turnejm]

Lee Precision Size Die for 38 S&W

Should solve your problem...

Seat Di Body 38 S&w - Lee Precision

Hope this helps...

 

[snubbiefan]

If the die is marked 38 auto.....obviously it ain't going to work properly. If the dies are NIB and you bought them that way...Lee would likely make it right. They have sent me items to replace obviously improperly packaged dies. It happens. If you bought them used.....you may be SOOL getting Lee to fix it. In any event....get 38 S&W dies.

 

[Jellybean]

Should solve your problem...

Seat Di Body 38 S&w - Lee Precision

Hope this helps...

Unfortunately that's the seat die, not the size die. If you look at the part that Lee list's for the size body, it's a .38 auto. This is the way Lee works with all their dies, if there is a part that isn't popular they look to see if they have a 'near enough' replacement.

Other brands should be a truer fit, but the carbide sizer is the most expensive part of a die set.

 

[snubbiefan]

I turned away from Lee dies for some reasons just like the one you mentioned. I never have liked their powder-thru die. If I want to bell a case mouth...I want to decide how much it needs to be opened. Never have liked the "bump" you get on the out-stroke. This may be just fine and dandy for progressive loaders using properly-sized slugs. I cast bullets from Lee molds that say they don't need to be sized, but most of them do. Generally......if you try and seat cast bullets from a Lee mold behind a Lee powder-thru die.....you often get a mess. I prefer RCBS myself.

 

[CCAMERA50]

...as i feared

well, tomorrow i will buy a new set ( but RCBS )

and from today ... me also will turn away from Lee
(and also if i have got some other ther dies , all
without problems )

dies was news but ...from Italy and for a 39 Eur
( 50.00 $ about) of value i think try with Lee , will
be only a waste of time and more money

...immediately after i will go to the range to shoot
the 50 rounds i made

Apart from the "not perfect" look ( you see the light
hourglass shape only if you know it there is ) i do not
think should be dangerous

thank you

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

There is a small amount of tapper in a 38 S&W case, in fact it is about 3 times the tapper in a SAMMI specified 45 ACP. And I have not been able to find a true 38 S&W carbide sizing die. 38 Special dies make a 38 S&W case way too small (they often split on the first firing after sizing in special dies), so I have always had to use standard die sets for 38 S&W. Ivan

 

[CCAMERA50]

There is a small amount of tapper in a 38 S&W case, in fact it is about 3 times the tapper in a SAMMI specified 45 ACP. And I have not been able to find a true 38 S&W carbide sizing die. 38 Special dies make a 38 S&W case way too small (they often split on the first firing after sizing in special dies), so I have always had to use standard die sets for 38 S&W. Ivan

..............................................

Rightly !

the carbide insert it is a ring .....it give only a cylindrical shape

this means maybe it is needless ?

The other brands i listed above produce they also only
carbide sizers ?

CC

 

[mikld]

There is no need to "turn away" from Lee dies. 90% of problems with Lee equipment is operator error. If I want less flare in the case moths, I adjust the die! Can't blame Lee if you are trying to use .38 Auto dies on .38 S&W cases...

 

[turnejm]

Lee Precision 38 S&W Seat Die

Jellybean,

There might be some confusion in the labels that Lee uses to name their dies. The "sizer" die is used as the first step in prep'ing cartridge brass. The "powder thru" die is used to flare the mouth of the brass to prep for bullet seating. Then, the "seater" die is used to seat the bullet, remove the flare from the mouth, and apply a taper crimp to the cartridge. If the situation requires a "factory" crimp, then the Factory Crimp die is used to supply a roll crimp to the finished cartridge.
Referring to most any cartridge dimension's sources on the internet, you'll find the 38 Super crimp diameter is smaller than is used on the 38 S&W cartridge. The problem of "over" crimping the mouth will be solved with the quoted seat die. Just use the 38 S&W seat die body with the seat plug from the 38 Super die. Problem should be solved!

Modular Technology at it's Best!

 

[CCAMERA50]

There is no need to "turn away" from Lee dies. 90% of problems with Lee equipment is operator error. If I want less flare in the case moths, I adjust the die! Can't blame Lee if you are trying to use .38 Auto dies on .38 S&W cases...

.............................

The question is about wrong sizer , the other two dies and the packaging was corrects .

Well......

through the local distributor, the Lee sent me a dies set.

I ( ...my fault ) not tested immediately and only now i
certify an error and not a simply difference .

also because honesty require to say only after an attempt
and some opinion of other people expert in to reloading ..no ?)

I' m not interested in to know who made error and reasons , given the small value and the location ( USA /Italy ) ,
should be "unnecessary complicated" try to fix the problem
with the producer, through the distributor and so on....
then i simply will buy again.

However, given the experience I do not think questionable
my disappointment and a consequent choice for a different
firm

regards

CC

 

[k22fan]

My experience with all the big U.S. manufactures of reloading tools is that they mail you free replacements after you mail them any tool that doesn’t work satisfactorily. That includes Lee. Call the Lee factory and I bet they will offer to replace the problem die.

I own a Lyman carbide die set that is marked both .38 ACP/Super and .38 S&W. Both cartridges have an outside diameter slightly larger than .38 special. I don’t own a gun for either cartridge so I haven’t tried it out yet.

 

[Jellybean]

Jellybean,

There might be some confusion in the labels that Lee uses to name their dies. The "sizer" die is used as the first step in prep'ing cartridge brass. The "powder thru" die is used to flare the mouth of the brass to prep for bullet seating. Then, the "seater" die is used to seat the bullet, remove the flare from the mouth, and apply a taper crimp to the cartridge. If the situation requires a "factory" crimp, then the Factory Crimp die is used to supply a roll crimp to the finished cartridge.
Referring to most any cartridge dimension's sources on the internet, you'll find the 38 Super crimp diameter is smaller than is used on the 38 S&W cartridge. The problem of "over" crimping the mouth will be solved with the quoted seat die. Just use the 38 S&W seat die body with the seat plug from the 38 Super die. Problem should be solved!

Modular Technology at it's Best!

John, there is no confusion with the labels, the problem is the sizing die. It is sizing the case too small for a true .38 S&W diameter bullet which when seated leaves a coke bottle shape in the case.

If you read the first post he tells you the SIZER is for a .38 auto, which is what Lee includes in their .38 S&W die sets. The other two dies should be marked for .38 S&W, which is what Lee includes in their .38 S&W die set too, so if he buys a replacement expander die, he will be buying what he already has. Also, the seat die will perform a roll crimp without wasting money on a factory crimp die.

It's not modular technology at it's best, a better term would be more like modular technology at it's cheapest.

 

[2152hq]

My set of LEE dies for the 38S&W / 38N-P are carbide(sizer) .
I've had this set of dies for probably 15yrs and bought them new.
The carbide sizer is marked '38 Auto'.

Nothing on the instruction sheet says anything about using the dies to reload 38 Auto.
This must be a more recent addition. Someone at Lee said why not,,print it on the instructions as long as the die says so.



What the problem may be is the bullet you are using w/ the dies and how they are configured.

The instructions w/my die set clearly says 'Bullet Diameter .357-.358 inches'.

You can argue that it's the wrong diameter for that cartridge and I'd agree.
But for that set of dies, the combination of the carbide sizer being used on this tapered wall cartridge, the (probably) smaller expander diameter and the OP's larger diameter bullet being seated makes for the hour-glass look to the loaded rounds.
Wasp-waisted they used to say.

The entire combination of carbide sizer, tapered case, expander size and bullet diameter is bound to cause it.
Add to that brass that may be a touch thicker at the mouth and it grows even more on the outside diameter when the 'oversize' bullet is seated.

Starline brass which I really like, may be a bit thicker at the mouth than older brass. Any of them could be, nothing against S/Line

I've used these dies to load 38S&W for many years but I use .357/38SP bullets. Historically incorrect just like me but they seem to give as fine of accuracy as I can ask from an Enfield, Webley or Victory.

Just some observations.

 

[gordonrick]

I too use the Lee dies. I called about the .38 Auto markings and were told that was the correct part for the .38 S&W set.

I've found that the .360" LRN bullets from Magtech work very well in my 38/200 Pre-Victory and Terrier and fit the Lee-sized cases well with no "hourglass" issues.

I have found the same issue as the OP with .45 ACP dies and .452" bullets. These were made up for a buddy's re-chambered Webley (.455) and will chamber, but snugly, in a "true" .45 cal chamber (M1917 Brazilian)

Personally I've got no problem with the Lee dies. Everything else is RCBS, but Lee dies work for me.