38 S & W dbl. action date for smokeless

[gwpercle]

My mother gave me her father's 38 S&W , top break , double action, 5 shot revolver, and a box of Winchester ammo. The ammo is loaded with smokeless powder ( looks like
1980's vintage ammo ) The ser. no. is 455,467 , which might make it a Fourth model. What would be the year of production ? And when did S&W start making them for use with smokeless ammo. I was thinking of shooting it ( it's in good condition ) but not if it was rated for black powder. Don't want to chance ruining a family heirloom. And yes I know it is not 38 special but 38 S&W and that is what the ammo is. From what little information I have found I think it was made after 1900, but that's all I know. Any help is greatly appreciated..........gary

 

[DWalt]

A picture would be nice to see if it has a visible hammer, but yours appears to ba a later model of the .38 DA, probably made in the 1905-09 period. Using smokeless factory ammunition should not hurt it, assuming that the condition is good - factory loads are loaded lightly.

 

[gwpercle]

Dwalt

Sorry about the picture ...having technical difficulties. And yes it does have an exposed hammer. It can be fired single action ( thumb cocked and fired ) or double action ( one long trigger squeeze ). Thanks for the information . 1905 to 1909 , just after the turn of century. Do you know year when S&W started manufacturing for smokeless powder for this model ? When I go home tonight I will try to get photo. I'am sorta computer challanged and don't really know how to put a picture into the screen. But my wife is better at computer stuff and maybe she can do it. Don't laugh ...I still drive a 1968 Chevelle because it has no computer..I can still tune it up and work on it myself with only hand tools and a timing light. Edelbrock carbs adjust with a screwdriver.

gary

 

[glowe]

Gary - When you open "Post Reply" you will see a tab named Manage Attachments down the page a bit. Click the Browse button and find the picture on you computer. Double click and you will be returned to the Manage Attachments window. Click Upload and wait for the picture to load. Repeat this up to 5 times and then click Preview Post to see if everything loaded, then click Submit Reply.

As for ammunition, most ammo manufacturers started loading smokeless shortly after it was made available in 1898. Your S&W will do fine on standard 38 S&W ammo that is loaded today.

 

[gwpercle]

glowe

Thanks so very much for the easy to understand instructions, you know us " old dogs" have trouble with them " new tricks" . The wife has instructed me in operation of new fangled camera that does not require film but a computer to print photo's. ( I still have my Minnolta 35 mm SLR and an assortment of lenses .. just in case film becomes available again or it becomes an antique ) As soon as daylight comes around I will take some photo's for posting. We just had a hellascious storm roll thru , I hope it clears tomorrow as daylit photo's are best for firearms, at least thats how I did it with my SLR back in the day.

THANKS AGAIN ,
gary

 

[rastcole]

loading my new departure (155,3xx) with 2.6 gr of AA#2, 125 gr LHP....doing fine

 

[gwpercle]

MY FIRST PHOTO'S

Although they are not great , they are posted. I took better ones earlier today but camera was set on something that would not let photo's load. Wife changed settings and took these in front of kitchen window. I like my SLR camera better, can focus thru lens and see what you're doing. Staring at the back side of camera while the picture moves around
just ain't right and I don't like it.

Tomorrow I will get better lighting and take better photo's and post them...stay tuned for part II. From what glowe has said I take it I can post 5 photo's in 1 reply?

Thans glowe , your help is appreciated......gary

 

[glowe]

That is a well used 38 S&W. We can only guess what a life this classic had over the last 100 years. I like the long barrel and see some traces of blue remaining. If the gun indexes correctly and the lockup is tight, I would definately take it out to the range.

 

[gwpercle]

I know my Grandfather owned it during the depression of 1929 thru 1940. they lived in Beaumont Texas area and he was a black smith. Mom said they would have " starved slap to death if not for Grandad shooting small game for meat to go along with the vegtables we grew. " When I asked her what game she said mostly " Hoover Hogs " He made curved knives to go under the shell to make cleaning them easier. ( I remember seeing these when a child and we would visit them in Texas, didn't know thier purpose then ) I asked if hoover hog was another name for armadillo " yes honey it is but when you 're hungry you will eat anything and my mother was a good cook so tasted fine in a fricassee. I dont know where it was prior to 1929 but one day I will get it lettered.
Going to go see if I can get some better photo,s now...gary

 

[gwpercle]

first photo's part II

I am still having trouble with lighting and focus. This camera is a Sony Cyber-shoot with auto focus. It keeps focusing on the towel the gun is lying on and not the gun itself. The macro setting photo's would not down load so I am trying other settings to see what will work. These had the flash on to try to get better lighting. My airweight J frame looks pretty good when I photo'ed it Blued guns must be harder to photo like black cats are harder to photograph.

Any suggestions for getting better shots would be appreciated

I hate new fangled stuff, now must relearn everything I knew about photography, rats............. gary

 

[rboineau]

Gary, get yourself a digital SLR camera and you will like it. I kept using my 1971 Nikon FTN well into the digital age but finally went modern not too long ago.

I recently bought a gun very much like yours and have shot it a little. They are fun to shoot. I didn't want to hunt down a box of .38S&W ammunition just to try it, so cut down some .357 cases to S&W length and loaded them with a light charge of powder. They worked fine; cases didn't bulge and the accuracy was as good as the factory loads I later bought and tried.

 

[gwpercle]

Third Try at taking Photo,s

This morning tried daylit photos. Sun was to my right. lighting better but getting an up close photo is not right.

Robineaux's comments make me think I'm trying to do something with this camera that it wasn't designed for.

I put my airweight in the shot to give camera more to focus on, this and daylight seem to help . These are better shots than the first ones.

Have to go see if I can beg, borrow or steal a " digital SLR "
I have a bunch of old 38 spcl. brass with little neck cracks...perfect for cutting down to 38 S&W....

Thanks for the tips.....gary

 

[gwpercle]

Here is shot using macro setting, trying to get up close and clear photo . this is indoors with flash. My first photo's on macro were set on a image size too large for loading. Changed size to the one for E-mail and it loads up. Now that I got size and focus I will work on better lighting.
Who said Old Dogs can't learn New Tricks ?

Appreciating everyone's help ....gary "old dog" percle

 

[glowe]

Macro mode usually works well when taking pictures of revolvers, since you are usually shooting close-up. Some digital cameras will lock the exposure and focus if you push and hold the shutter button half way down. One of my small digitals do this and I just pull the camera back another inch or two and the gun comes out in focus.

The problem with using 38 Special cases is that the correct bullet for a 38 S&W is .361" and will swell the 38 Special case. If you use 38 Special dies and .360" bullets, the final die will resize your bullet down to .357". If you are using a .357" bullet to start with, your accuracy will suffer, since the bullet will likely just blow through the barrel without grabbing the rifling. "Short" 38 Special reloads will function just fine and sometimes that is all the fun a person needs.

 

[DWalt]

I have never had an accuracy problem or keyholing using .357-.358 bullets in my reloading for the .38 S&W - but some .38 S&W revolvers may have oversized bores. As I have stated previously, I have pulled numerous bullets from many antique .38 S&W cartridges (usually duds), and have found their bullets measure .357-.359.

In using a digital camera for any close-up work, it is very important to hold the camera on some sort of firm support so that it does not move during exposure. A small sandbag is good, but I have used books, wooden blocks, etc. Do not hold the camera in your hands unsupported if it can be avoided, especially if using artificial light. Also, I always turn the in-camera flash off, as it will cause unwanted glare and reflections. If you have Photoshop or similar software, you can adjust the picture using auto-correct, Curves and brightness/contrast settings to make the final result look much better. I have a kitchen counter with a fluorescent fixture above it which makes an ideal "studio" for my close-up work.

Also, as stated, most cameras will lock into focus when you press the button slightly - so press it part-way down while watching the viewing screen, and when it indicates to be in focus, press the button the rest of the way down.

 

[glowe]

Dewalt, I bet you would tighten your spread by trying .361 bullets. They will load in a shortened 38 Special case, but you will notice the bulge. Doesn't seem to affect performance. I have recovered .357 and .361 bullets from the range and can hardly find any sign of rifling grooves on the .357, but they shot fine and did not keyhole. Shooting .361 bullets has definitely shown improved accuracy and rifling grooves are highly defined on recovered bullets. I buy my .361" 145 grain RN bullets, from Missouri Bullet Company and am happy with the quality. I think it would be worth a try to see if you can turn your 38 S&Ws into real tack drivers.

 

[DWalt]

I don't have much need for a tack driver any more, and the various .38 S&W revolvers I have were never designed for that purpose in the first place. But they will stay on the paper at 25 yards on a good day, and will kill a silhouette target at 15 yards every time. That's all I ask of them.

Back when I shot a revolver in competition, it was a K-38, and of course, I still have it in the event I ever want to get back into the tack-driving game (unlikely as my eyes are not nearly as good as they once were).

Sawing off .38 Special cases was something I used to do, but at present I have all of the original .38 S&W cases for reloading I'll ever use, and then some.