I found a lead bullet maker that reproduces the 38/200 cast bullet. My first round down range resulted it a stuck case in the cylinder. Loaded 38/200 rounds fit the chambers perfectly. A hot load may have caused the sticky case, however after a cooling off time the case ejected with ease. My question: is a postwar 38S&W ok to shoot 38/200. Are the barrel dimensions the same as in the British S&W wartime production revolver? A tight bullet may have caused the increased pressure. Your thoughts are appreciated.
38 S&W vs 38/200
- Thread starter delta-419
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Sistema1927
US Veteran
Since .38 S&W and 38/200 are the same round, my guess is that you had a hot load that caused the case to stick. Either that, or the revolver has had some "fiddling" done to it, and is no longer up to spec.
Model19man
Member
Agree, the 38/200 is loaded to normal 38 S&W pressures. It is simply a heavier bullet that was preferred by the British when they developed the Webley / Enfield revolvers that originally used it.
DWalt
Member
There is no .38/200. The British designation is .380 Revolver, Mk 2. It used a 178 grain FMJ bullet. The earlier Mk 1 round used the 200 grain Lead bullet. .38/200 is sort of a slang term. The Mk 2 round has essentially the same internal ballistics characteristics as the US .38 S$W. I don't know why cases would stick in the chambers so long as you are using reloading handbook powders and weights for the .38 S&W and a 200 grain bullet. Unfortunately, my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists no .38 S&W load recommendations for 200 grain bullets.
I’ve never heard a stuck case cooling off and getting easier to unload and I’ve done reload after reload after reload using moonclips on a 45 ACP revolver getting the cylinder hot enough for it to be painful to touch.
A slightly hot .38 S&W load isn’t going to be an issue with a WW2 era Smith and Wesson. A break top from the 1880’s might be a different issue.
A slightly hot .38 S&W load isn’t going to be an issue with a WW2 era Smith and Wesson. A break top from the 1880’s might be a different issue.
DWalt
Member
I normally load the .38 S&W to .38 Special performance levels for use in the Victory BSR. I have never experienced a fired case sticking problem.
The 200 grain solid lead moved to a 178 grain FMJ as there were potential complaints about dum-dum loads with the 200 grain lead. Dave_n
Rpg
Member
Sounds like either you need to scrub the chambers or your hand loads are too energetic.
What was the nominal load you used?
What was the nominal load you used?
Ivan the Butcher
Member
Years ago, I wanted 38 Colt New Police loads. They use a 200 grain RNFP bullet to keep the COAL to a short 38 S&W length. I ordered in a 500 round box of cast 35 Remington bullets (cast RN .358" dia.) and Loaded them to info in Cartridges of the World by Frank Barns. They worked great in my Top Breaks. I considered them the most accurate load I ever came up with for the 38 S&W cartridge.
Ivan
My best friend owns the Lyman All American die for 38 S&W, and it was late at night a few years ago when I wanted to load some 38 S&W 158 RN. I used the 38 Auto/ Super Auto Carbide die in a Lee set to size with and 9x19 Lugar dies for separate seating and taper crimp dies Load ed up about 350 rounds without borrowing any equipment. I like WW231 for non-magnum hand gun rounds. I think I found that data on Hodgdon's web sight. Those old 38 Colt NP loads are WW 231 also. (a commercial reloader had an old Winchester flier from the 60's that was identical to the CoW data I had used).
Ivan
My best friend owns the Lyman All American die for 38 S&W, and it was late at night a few years ago when I wanted to load some 38 S&W 158 RN. I used the 38 Auto/ Super Auto Carbide die in a Lee set to size with and 9x19 Lugar dies for separate seating and taper crimp dies Load ed up about 350 rounds without borrowing any equipment. I like WW231 for non-magnum hand gun rounds. I think I found that data on Hodgdon's web sight. Those old 38 Colt NP loads are WW 231 also. (a commercial reloader had an old Winchester flier from the 60's that was identical to the CoW data I had used).
DWalt
Member
I have been loading for the .38 S&W since the early 1970s. I also have always used a .38 Super sizing die and 9mm neck expanding and seating dies. That is because the .38 Super expanding and seating dies are the wrong dimensions (too long) for the short .38 S&W case, but 9mm dies work OK. The diameter of the .38 Super sizing die is slightly small for the .38 S&W case, but it has always worked with no problems for me. .38 Colt NP and .38 S&W cases are identical other than their headstamps. I doubt anyone still makes .38 NP ammunition today. No need for it. Note that .357-.358 lead bullets will work OK for loading .38 S&W, you will probably see no performance differences from using them instead of the "correct" .361 lead bullets. I have never reloaded .38 S&W using 200 grain bullets.
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To the OP, you may want to closely examine your cylinder chambers. Look out for anything like a bulged chamber.
Also, closely inspect the chambers to make sure somebody hadn't attempted to convert it to 38 Special.
Attached is a current SAAMI spec diagram for the 38 S&W cartridge.
Max pressure is 13,000 CUP or 14,500 PSI.
Also, closely inspect the chambers to make sure somebody hadn't attempted to convert it to 38 Special.
Attached is a current SAAMI spec diagram for the 38 S&W cartridge.
Max pressure is 13,000 CUP or 14,500 PSI.
Attachments
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Jakerin
Member
I’ve had my lil .38S&W Terrier Model 32 since 1971 and a friend of a friend made me some nice hollow point reloads for it. That was in the 70s and most of them are gone now. I shoot it occasionally and carry it concealed too. Nice lil piece, my first wheelgun actually.
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venomballistics
Member
what you describe has over pressure leading the pack of causes.
38/200 as others have stated, is a bit of a slang term.
It denotes a load specification rather than a chamber.
Since its you pulling the lever, you can deviate from that load specification.
I'm sure that old iron would appreciate something kinder and gentler than the old British war horse.
38/200 as others have stated, is a bit of a slang term.
It denotes a load specification rather than a chamber.
Since its you pulling the lever, you can deviate from that load specification.
I'm sure that old iron would appreciate something kinder and gentler than the old British war horse.
Model19man
Member
A bit of history on the British 38/200 and the revolver designed for it.
Gun Review: Webley Mk IV .38 top break revolver in 38/200 / .38 S&W :: Guns.com
Gun Review: Webley Mk IV .38 top break revolver in 38/200 / .38 S&W :: Guns.com
DWalt
Member
Re the SAAMI spec sheet shown in #12 above, note that the bullet diameter shown in the drawing has a given diameter of 0.361-0.006, i.e., bullet diameters from 0.355 to 0.361 are compliant with SAAMI specifications. And as I previously mentioned, 0.357-0.358 bullets as used in the .38 Special are satisfactory for use in reloading the .38 S&W.
Model19man
Member
Respectfully I disagree. Accuracy is far better if the right diameter bullets are used.
