38 Spec. Data Question

[sjs]

I am looking at a light load for 125gr FN Alloy with Bullseye at 3.2gr for 763 fps as a starting load. I find this in the Lyman Load Data Pamphlet of 2011.

I would like to try this in a revolver with a 4.5" barrel, but it makes me wonder because my other manuals start 125gr bullets with Bullseye at 4.0gr (LEE) and 4.5gr (Alliant) with the Alliant book stating DNR (Do Not Reduce). Now these higher charges are for jacketed bullets and the Lyman data is for cast, so some difference is expected. However, this is a large difference and the DNR annotation makes me nervous.

Any comments on this light load will be appreciated.

 

[reddog81]

Make sure each bullet impacts the target if you're worried about sticking one in the barrel.

FWIW I'd trust the Lyman data.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

When primers are the most costly (next to bullets) and (definitely) hardest to acquire reloading items...

Why load questionable powder(less?) puff loads anyway? To save a fraction of a cent? At the risk of a squib?

Can you actually feel the difference between 3.2 or 4.0 gr of Bullseye? Is it onerous?

Cheers!

P.S. Hornady starts at 4.5gr...

 

[ddixie884]

If the other 2 are jacketed bullets it would make a difference............

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Lyman #50 shows a 125gr HP bullet with Bullseye. Starting charge is 3.2gr for 568 fps from a 4" barrel. The max charge is listed as 4.4gr generating 860 fps from the same 4" barrel. Lyman is also listing the max charge as the potentially most accurate load. They list a cast bullet with a range of 2.8gr to 4.6gr Bullseye for a 120gr bullet. I'm not sure which bullet you want to load.

I hope this helps you. Remember mistakes can and will happen when writing numbers so be sure to double check all data you get from the Internet.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have loaded two 125 gr lead bullets for use in my J frame snub nose.

A HSM 125 LFN OAL at 1.44"
Bullseye at 3.2 grs .................... 627fps ......... poor accuracy
3.5 grs cut the group in half.

Xtreme 125 "Cowboy" OAL 1.36"
Bullseye 3.2 grs ........... 579fps ..............20ft off rest........... 5 @ 1"

Trail Boss was the best powder for minimum fps and recoil at 600fps.

Good luck with your 4" barrel.

 

[Sevens]

I'm not sure what you are describing when you call the bullet "alloy" as this is not a commonly used term in handloading to describe bullets.

I will try to make my piece short -- typically I fail.

Understand that revolvers are a BAD place to make loads that are too light. Specifically revolvers because revolvers have a flash gap between cylinder face and forcing cone where much needed pressure is allowed to escape.

If your bullet is a soft lead bullet of appropriate size, it has less resistance to traveling down the bore. If the bullet is a little oversize... or harder... or if it is electroplated... or if it is jacketed... or any combination of these things, it offers -MORE- resistance going down the bore and when that happens, the very much needed pressure (that you don't have enough of when you load far too conservatively) will bleed out the escape valve, the flash gap.

If you are talking soft lead bullets, keep a close eye on what is happening and ensure all are exiting your bore. If you stick one, hopefully it isn't too much trouble to tap it out.

If you stick a plated bullet or a jacketed one, it can be absolute HELL removing it.

Also note that there is no precise line between "this WORKS!" and "ugh, this didn't work..." You can build a box of fifty rounds of .38 Special that was far too light and the first 13 of them all go bang, but the 14th one will end your range day with that revolver.

 

[dmy]

Your result may vary

For my 3" 686+, Meister 125 gr LRNFP over 3.9 grs of Bullseye produced 738 fps and 4.2 grs produced 770 fps. From my 6" barrel, 4.2 grs of Bullseye produced 924 fps. A MBC Hi-Tek coated 125 gr TCFP produced 926 fps in the 6" barrel.

 

[Goblin]

For what it's worth, 3.0 of Bullseye under a Speer 148 HBWC clocks 805 FPS in my 4" model 64. I'd trust your Lyman data if you're using a lead bullet, keeping in mind the comments above about dangerously slow loads. 800 FPS is a light load, maybe lighter than you really need it to be.

 

[WR Moore]

I am looking at a light load for 125gr FN Alloy with Bullseye at 3.2gr for 763 fps as a starting load. I find this in the Lyman Load Data Pamphlet of 2011.

I would like to try this in a revolver with a 4.5" barrel, but it makes me wonder because my other manuals start 125gr bullets with Bullseye at 4.0gr (LEE) and 4.5gr (Alliant) with the Alliant book stating DNR (Do Not Reduce). Now these higher charges are for jacketed bullets and the Lyman data is for cast, so some difference is expected. However, this is a large difference and the DNR annotation makes me nervous.

Any comments on this light load will be appreciated.

One of the primary reasons for differences in load data in different sources is that they're using different firearms/test barrels. I expect the DNR note on the Alliant load data is because it's harder to drive jacketed bullets through a barrel and as others have mentioned, you don't want to stick a bullet in the barrel.

Lead bullet data is typically lower charge weights per given powder because they're easier to drive through the barrel and too high a flame temperature can soften the bullet base and cause barrel leading.

 

[glenwolde]

The DNR only applies to the jacketed bullets the data is for. I've never seen it happen but supposedly a too-light load can cause the bullet's lead core to separate from the jacket leaving the jacket in the barrel while the core makes a hole in the target. Any subsequent shot without clearing the barrel will most likely cause a catastrophic failure. I suspect this phenomenon was more common with the old-style half-jacket bullets than modern day ones.

I would of course have to assume it is possible to load a jacketed bullet so light that it would just not make it out the barrel. In practical use I've never found the minimum loads to be "too much" so I've never gone there. Well, expect for the .41 magnum where there isn't always mid-range data. With lead bullets it would be much more difficult so stick a bullet in a barrel. You have published data for lead bullets so go with that. I think your fine.

Having driven more than my fair share of bullets out of bores, for one reason or another, I can tell you it's something to avoid but not difficult all to do if you have the proper tools. Lead bullets are easy. Jacketed bullets are harder but still not any sort of onerous chore. All you need is a brass or aluminum rod and a mallet. Lead bullets tap out pretty easy. Jacketed bullets you've got to hammer on a bit more.

I carry a piece of hardwood dowel in my range bag. If I even think I might have a stuck bullet I run it down the barrel to check. This avoids having to do the always attention-getting "look down the barrel", which tends to alarm RSO's.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Just a note on starting loads or "X-Lite" loads in weapons.

I have no problems doing this in a 38 special 2" barrel.

However, if the barrel is 4" or longer I will start with a minimum load from a manual that has proven the bullet will exit the barrel.

With all my light loads, I make sure there is a bullet hole in the paper target or that I have seen dust fly................along with the chrony reading....
before pulling the trigger again.

I have shot many a load WAY BELOW the manuals minimum powder amount.......
but they need to list loads that are SAFE , for all weapons.

"Custom Bloopers" are only for those that want to try them in "their" weapons.

 

[mikld]

There are many claimed reasons for wanting "powder puff", "mouse fart", "low recoiling loads", etc., but I can't see any advantage. Low recoil for one that cannot handle recoil? Go to a smaller caliber. Save money on components (light bullets w/small charges)? One would have to reload thousands of loads a few grains of powder lower to make a real difference in cost. And besides, for someone that has to ask this question, minimum loads listed in reloading manuals are there for a reason. Generally that is as low as one should go for consistent, safe loads...

I haven't asked for load data on a forum since 2007. I have reloading manuals and I pay no attention to any load data from any forum expert, range rat, good intended friend, gun counter clerk or gun shop guru. I started reloading using published data in 1969 and had one squib in 1970 and no Kabooms, ever...

 

[Jellybean]

I am looking at a light load for 125gr FN Alloy with Bullseye at 3.2gr for 763 fps as a starting load. I find this in the Lyman Load Data Pamphlet of 2011...

Any comments on this light load will be appreciated.

I'm not sure what you mean by "FN Alloy", but the load you listed is in Lyman's 4th edition Cast Bullet Handbook. Looking at their specs. you should be good even if you aren't using the Lee bullet they used for their data.

Suggested starting loads for lead bullets are usually well above the "stuck in the barrel" point, especially in modern manuals where the popular fad is to shop for fastest load possible.

 

[gwpercle]

Use the data for jacketed bullets with bullets with thick metal jackets and lead cores ...
they are harder thus need additional powder to push them clear of the barrel ... not enough powder = stuck bullet in bore = Bad .

Cast lead , coated lead and plated lead are softer , are easier to push down the barrel thus can have lighter powder charge and still not stick in the bore .

Your description "125 gr. FN Alloy " is confusing ... exactly what bullet do you have . There are some monolithic bullets on the market that are very hard . Please explain your bullets ... Cast lead , coated Lead , plated lead , Jacketed with lead core or Solid Monolithic construction ?
In reloading ...the details matter ...be specific !
Gary

 

[Kp321]

That sounds like the bullet I use. 125 gr lead (some people term them alloy)Flat Nose (FN).

 

[sjs]

Well, what happened is that I was going through my inventory of 38sp reloads and found 100 with that load. The bullet was a Missouri Bullet Company coated truncated flat nose. It was a batch I loaded some time ago so I looked up the data. I got concerned when I could only find it listed in the one Lyman book so I asked the original question here.

After reading the posts I went way back through my extensive notes and saw it was part of a larger batch that I had loaded for practicing defensive drills and point shooting with my S&W 637 snub nose. I also saw that it was the second batch I had loaded with that load and I had already shot the first batch.

So, I took it to the range and shot all of them with fine results through my 4.5".

Thanks for all the advice. As always with this forum I learned useful stuff.