38 special ctg

sarlaud

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I have just had a s&w revolver that belonged to my grandfather who was in law enforcement. Not sure what model or year it was made. It has s&w 38 SPF ctg on barrel and "U.S Property GHD" on top of frame above cylinder. On butt has " w and v with six digit serial number in 300,000's. Has a p above cylinder on frame. Can anyone help with model etc. are manuals available for these
 

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I am new to forum so I will take some pictures and attempt to post. I also see people referring to a letter from s&w historian for $50 telling what they know about the gun. Haven't found where to request this yet. I will get going on pics and get them posted. Thank you for help. I have all his service items like cuffs and badge and call box key. Really interested in this gun in pretty good shape. I am 57 so this gun must be pretty old.
 
You have a variety of the S&W .38 Military & Police revolver that is called a Victory. These guns were produced during WWII. The V ("Victory") on the butt is part of the serial number and helps to distinguish the Victory revolvers from the first million M&Ps that were produced from 1899 to 1942. With a serial number in the V300000 range, your grandfather's gun was most likely produced and shipped in 1943. The Victory designation was retired after the end of WWII, and the last couple of hundred thousand guns in the second million of the M&P series (which wrapped up in 1948) had an S prefix.

A lot of British Service Revolvers that chambered .38 S&W instead of .38 Special were also produced as Victory revolvers. They mostly had five inch barrels. The Victories produced for American consumption mostly had four inch barrels. The cartridge designation on the barrel should read .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG. Is part of the stamp illegible?

The original Victories had phosphate ("parkerized") finishes, but many were refinished after WWII when they went into private ownership. They came with smooth walnut stocks and lanyard loops.

There are lots of threads about Victory revolvers here. You can use the forum search feature to find them.
 
There are two main ways of posting pix. If you have the pictures on a hosting site like Photo Bucket, you copy the URL for each picture and use the Pix icon in the text window to insert it into your post's text. If you only have the pictures on your computer, you use Manage Attachments in the Go Advanced editor to upload the pictures from your computer to the forum. Once you save, the pictures become attachments below your text.
 
ok i got a few pics uploaded to original post. thanks for the help. what would something like this be worth?
 
sarlaud, take off the grips and see if the serial number matches the gun. It's pretty rough but doesn't seem to have been refinished. I can't say what the sigma and P stampings mean. Perhaps David or others more familiar with the Victory models can say. They also will have a better feel for its value. You can help that out a little by buying and installing the lanyard ring. That what the hole in the butt frame is for. Also, you may have to get a historian's letter for it to find out when was shipped and to whom.
 
serial numbers on the grips? In other posts you asked if the s&w 38 special ctg on the barrel is illegible. It is very clear. I tried to upload other pics but they failed. maybe a limit on pics? I have grips off. would the serial number be in pencil?
 
ok i got a few pics uploaded to original post. thanks for the help. what would something like this be worth?


First, the grips/stocks alone are worth a pretty penny. A specialist collector will tell you more. Stay tuned... Those came off of a gun of this type made between about 1910-1920, or until the supply was exhausted. The brass (?) medallion at the top is the distinguishing feature. Your gun probably had smooth walnut grips. Peacetime grips were checkered, but had a silver medallion (not gold) at the top at that time.

Next, your gun is missing the lanyard swivel and ring. That's why it has a hole in the butt. Replacement parts are fairly easy to find, if you want to restore it. I would. Collectors will insist on this.

I cannot be sure from the photos if this gun has been reblued. The finish looks pretty bright for a Victory Model. They normally have a dull gray Midnight Black (looks like Parkerizing) finish with some tool marks that weren't polished off right, due to the rush of wartime production. However, some are better made than others. The lettering on your gun looks sharp and not refinished. There are a couple of brown spots on the cylinder that may be rust?

You may be interested to know that this is the sort of revolver that JFK had on his lanyard while he swam around in the Pacific while trying to rescue his crew when a Jap destroyer cut his PT boat in two. It saw very heavy issue to the Navy, especially to air crews and to USMC and other units. The Maritime Commission and the USCG aso used a lot of them. OSS had some and relatively few were used by the Army. Many went to plant guards and civilian cops. SOME of the Navy guns are marked as such.

The G.H.D. initials on the topstrap mean that the gun was inspected by Col. Guy H. Drewry (sp?) or one of his inspectors prior to acceptance by the miiitary.

Until recently, the Victory Model was regarded as just a rougher version of the Military and Police revolver, called Model 10 after 1957, when the company assigned model numbers. They were cheaper, because of the surplus gun factor and the rougher finish. Now, many are collecting them as WWII and US Martial items and the price has gone up.

If you are out to get the best price, add the lanyard ring and the original type smooth stocks and IF the finish is original, ask $400 and see if anyone bites. Some will pay more, many less. Keep in mind that a collector will pay more than just someone wanting a .38 for real world use. They can buy a commercial M&P for $250-350 and get a better finish and later production suited for use with Plus P ammo, if needed. Personally, I'd pay a little more (if needed; prices overlap) and get a stainless Model 64, made after about 1970. There are many police trade-ins of those.

You can probably sell those grips alone for over a hundred dollars, maybe three times that to someone who really wants them for an older gun.

I hope that you keep the gun as-is and hand it down in the family as an heirloom.

Oh: on those older guns, you may indeed find the serial number in pencil on the inside of the right grip panel. BUT, this will NOT be the serial number of your later gun! However, you can post here and see if anyone owns a gun with that number, and he may buy the grips. Strange things like that happen.
 
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I wondered about the grips because most of the wartime guns I have seen used plain checkered walnut with no medallion and a round concave top. However, considering that this gun may have been sent to a LEO and might have had stock grips installed, I didn't bring it up. Grips original to the gun are stamped on one panel. Older grips, like these, may have a penciled serial number instead.
 
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Not trying to give the OP a hard time but that serial number is in the 500,000 range, not the 300,000s. LOL - use those reading glasses, like the rest of us. (smile)

Dave
 
I wondered about the grips because most of the wartime guns I have seen used plain checkered walnut with no medallion and a round concave top. However, considering that this gun may have been sent to a LEO and might have had stock grips installed, I didn't bring it up. Grips original to the gun are stamped on one panel. Older grips, like these, may have a penciled serial number instead.


Your post is an oxymoron: the grips cannot be both plain and checkered! :rolleyes: Nor do these WWII grips have a concave shape at the top like early Model 1917 .45 grips may. At least, none that I've seen have that concave feature. And I saw many of these former Navy guns that had been transferred to the USAF while I was in that service. (AF, not Navy.)

Time for you to go drink some coffee or get some sleep...:D

BTW, the reason why the serial number was at one time pencilied onto the right grip is that the grips are fitted to the individual frame, and minor polishing differences, etc. may cause rhe grips to fit precisely on some frames, not as well on others.The number let the factory workers see which grips were fitted to which frames. Also, some of the markings on the gun are just assembly numbers, to let workers know which parts were for which gun. Some handfitting was involved.

Oh: you can get military manuals for these guns or ask the factory for a copy of the basic instructions, which are very simple. And you misposted the caliber marking on the right of the barrel. Should read .38 S&W Special CTG. for Cartridges. I'm always amazed that so many who ask here cannot figure out that CTG abb. Cartridges.
 
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"During WWII, the Victory Model stocks were plain walnut without medallions, and concavely rounded plain stock circles."

Supica, Jim; Nahas, Richard (2006-12-20). Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson 3rd (Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson) (p. 9). F+W Media, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

There is that better?

Time for you to go drink some coffee or get some sleep..

Thanks for the opinion, but I think I'll have a Bourbon instead. :D
 
to get lanyard wring, where would i go for that? so the model is victory? search online for it?
 
You can find them on eBay along with the right grips for your .38 M&P commonly known as the Victory Model. You will also need the swivel and pin so you can mount it. Look for a complete set. You can likely also purchase them from military surplus. Someone will know where.
 
"During WWII, the Victory Model stocks were plain walnut without medallions, and concavely rounded plain stock circles."

Supica, Jim; Nahas, Richard (2006-12-20). Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson 3rd (Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson) (p. 9). F+W Media, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

There is that better?



Thanks for the opinion, but I think I'll have a Bourbon instead. :D


Nahas and Supica are simply wrong, and this is not the only time. To refresh my memory, I looked at the guns pictured in "History of Smith & Wesson", by Jinks and in, "Smith & Wesson Hand Guns", by McHenry and Roper and none of the guns shown (three on one page in the latter book) have the concave shape.

I suppose that some might. Never say never with S&W... but the concave isn't common.

BTW, I own all three editions of the Nahas and Supica books, but the two other sources cited are quicker and easier to use.

Enjoy that bourbon. I'm off to eat a late lunch. :D
 
Sarlaud-

Are you American? Something about the way you use English suggests that you may not be. If you are in the USA, buy a copy of The Shotgun News, a tabloid newspaper that has many ads for gun parts, etc.

Or Search for Gun Parts Corp. They and other firms often have the parts you need. Springfield Sporters may have them. But be sure that the lanyard hole is clear. In the photo, it looks as if the swivel assembly pin/rod may be broken off in there.

Ask the parts dealer which parts you need to get the entire lanyard assembly. Or, someone here may answer that.
 
I really appreciate the info from both of you texas star and wiregrassguy! How can I print out the thread?
 
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