38 Special loads with Unique

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Almost got myself in trouble misreading some load data...got squared away, but came away with a question...i have photocopies of an old speers catalog that list 6.1 grains of Unique behind a 158 grain semi jacketed soft point...my newer lyman and hornady books show max loads at 5.1 grains. Any reason why? Also a question. I assume that lead swc bullets load at lower powder weights to eliminate leading. Is that the reason that a max load for lead bullets is 2 full grains less than jacketed?

Robert
 
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If you are using Speer Reloading Manual #8, it is notorious for containing overload data and should not be relied on. The data in it was not worked up with pressure tested data but rather by pressure signs such as case expansion and primer appearance.

Lyman #49 has 5.2 gr as the maximum load with Unique and a 158 grain JHP. Hornady #9 has 5.1 for the same load and the Speer #14 has 5.2 grains.

You need some new reloading manuals.
 
I have used 5 gr. of Unique with a 158 for many years as it is very accurate and is quite close to replicating the old FBI load.

With a 158 SWC 4 grains of Unique is also very accurate and mild to boot.

Randy
 
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If you are using Speer Reloading Manual #8, it is notorious for containing overload data and should not be relied on. The data in it was not worked up with pressure tested data but rather by pressure signs such as case expansion and primer appearance.


You need some new reloading manuals.

My Lyman and Hornady manuals are newer. I'll toss the old photo copies of the Speer manual. Thanks for the clarification.
 
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5 grains of Unique and a gas checked Lyman 358156 has been my go to .38 Special load for years. All I need.
 
Lead bullets give slightly higher velocities than jacketed bullets with the same powder charge. While properly sized , hardness ,and lubed cast bullets are capable of jacketed velocities it takes some more experience to get there. Also there is swaged lead not capable of high velocity.
 
Don’t use 158 gr jacketed bullets in 38 Special, substitute them with 158 gr cast or swaged (Speer/Hornady) bullets. For +P 158 gr lead bullets, use Speer reloading information...Speer offers this data free of charge on its website.

158 gr jacketed bullets cannot be propelled fast enough in 38 Special...you run the risk of sticking one in the barrel. A cast 158 gr SWC will serve you very well with Unique...5.0 grs Unique with the 158 gr cast SWC will give you a nice shooting 38 Spl +P load.
 
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[QUOTE 158 gr jacketed bullets cannot be propelled fast enough in 38 Special...you run the risk of sticking one in the barrel.[/QUOTE]

While I don't claim to be any sort of expert, any and every loading manual/data has multiple loads listed for 158gr jacketed bullets in 38sp. Can you clarify your statement?
 
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[QUOTE 158 gr jacketed bullets cannot be propelled fast enough in 38 Special...you run the risk of sticking one in the barrel.


...save your 158 gr jacketed bullets for 357 Magnum velocities. Yes, older manuals listed 158 gr jacketed data with 38 Spl. Speer today doesn’t anymore due to the potential for jacket separation or stuck bullet which may be encountered when pushing the 158 gr jacketed bullet too slowly in the 38 Spl. Most importantly, You’ll get much more velocity using a cast bullet vs jacketed with the same charge in your 38 Spl...just the way material properties and physics fall.

I’ve used 158 gr Hornady XTPs in 38 Spl before and the chronograph results showed approximately 75+ FPS slower than 158 gr cast using the same charge. The 38 Spl is challenged enough with velocity why limit yourself shooting 158 gr jacketed bullets unless you like their cosmetic appearance rather than performance compared to the superior cast bullet?
 
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5.4 grains of Unique under a 158 grain bullet was the accepted maximum in any of several manuals for many years. Makes a good +P factory velocity duplication load.

4.8 grains of Unique under a 158 grain bullet has been the general purpose .38 Special load here since the mid 1970s.

Anything under 4.5 grains of Unique when used with a 158 grain bullet seems to give me more extreme velocity variations when chronograph tested and burns smokey and dirty. I've long thought that Unique is at its best when loaded heavier than minimum listed loads.

I've used a lot of jacketed bullets in .38 Special, 158 grains and other weights in years past, but its been a long time since I bothered with using jacketed bullets in a .38 Special load. I've never seen a jacketed bullet stick in a .38 Special revolver barrel, but then I don't take current loading manuals and their conservative powder charge weights all that seriously.

Loading manuals have become so timorous that I really prefer my older editions over the newer ones for serious load development.
 
Many thousands of .38 Special reloads using 158-grain cast lead SWC and 5.0 Unique for several decades. Accurate, controllable, and effective for most uses. This has been my "go to" .38 Special load for decades, typically in the 850-900 FPS range with 4" barreled revolvers.

The increased resistance that comes with jacketed bullets (in the forcing cone and rifled bore) results in slower acceleration and lower velocities within the same overall operating pressures. Within the generally accepted pressure limitations of the .38 Special cartridge it is difficult to get a 158-grain jacketed bullet up to 800FPS, and that is marginal at best for any expectations of bullet expansion.

Properly made, sized, and lubricated cast bullets perform very well with lower overall pressures that are generally easier on the firearm (and the shooter), and serve most needs quite well. The jacketed bullets come into their own in the magnum calibers and high pressure loads (although many of us are perfectly content with good cast bullet loads in the 1200-1300FPS range when .357 magnum performance is needed, and actual performance on game animals is quite similar, at least in my experience).
 
First, the Speer #8 manual is very old data and since they did not use pressure testing equipment, I would not trust it.


Second, unless you are running really light loads of Unique, it is unlikely that you will get a jacketed bullet stuck in the barrel.


Third, given the velocity achievable in 38 Special with 158 grain bullets, jackets or gas checks are not really necessary unless the cylinder throats are smaller in diameter than the barrel groove diameter.


Fourth, with 158 grain bullets, it is difficult to get any hollow point expansion due to the relatively low velocity achievable with the 38 Special.
 
I bought the Speer #8 , to see for myself as I don't take what others say as gospel . What I found is that yes , there are a few loads that are more than todays . Many loads are just equal to what is published now and some are less than modern load data . Look at Alliants load data for the 45 Colt or 45 acp . Their max using Unique or Bullseye powder is much higher than what is published in the Speer #8 . Speer did pressure testing , with what was available in the day . I've seen pictures of a revolver hooked up to pressure equipment . Back then everyone used " CUP " instead of " PSI " . I don't waste my money on new manuals . The manuals I have are older , but were current when originally bought . They have served me well and will continue to do so .
For a nice load in a 38 special using 158 gr bullet . I would use between 5.0-5.4 grs , testing to find your liking . Regards Paul
 
The "Atomic" Speer #8 is famous for top loads for the "little" 38 Special revolver.

Please note on page number 360, that the listing states that a S&W K38 was used in the test............... not a light "J" frame.

Same weapon for the 2" loads, also.

My heavy bullet loads did better with Blue Dot, than Unique for accuracy.
 
Ahh the ole "Nuclear Speer #8" strikes again.

That said with proper data Unique with a 158 grain lead bullet is about as American as apple pie. I believe Im using 5.0 grains, but be sure and consult your manual. Im just a guy on the internet.
 
All I know is;

That 5.0 grs of Unique powder under a 158 lead bullet in my little snub nose "J" frame is all the powder that I like to use for five loads...............

I have shot hotter loads but this one will work.
 
I’ve gone to 5.2 grs Unique and 158 gr SWC and that load is also a very good 38 Spl +P load, velocity wise comparable to Federal’s 38G “FBI load.” I do like Unique in 357 Magnum mid range loads using 158 gr - 170 gr SWC bullets.
 
I had originally loaded the first 50 rounds with 5.9 grains of unique. I gave some thought to shooting them out of my model 27, but decided to pull the bullets and reload them with the 4 grains. I didn't want to chance it, even though I knew that the 27 would handle them, I was concerned about heavy leading or something. I just got started reloading These were the first 50 rounds I have ever loaded.
 

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