.380 Shield EZ barrel movement?

[PNW Shooter]

We picked up the S&W EZ promo kit for my wife yesterday. Once we got it home, I looked it over and got familiar with the gun. One thing I noticed is that if I grip the handle and hold the slide near the front of the gun, I can rock the slide side to side. Is this normal?? I would think it could seriously impact the accuracy of the gun if the barrel is allowed to move independent of the grips.

 

[Saudade]

You're not aiming with the grips. The sights stay in alignment.

Yes, some movement is normal.

 

[PNW Shooter]

So if I aim with the sight and pull the trigger, the barrel isn't going to move with the recoil? Seems a bit odd?? If I was to put a laser sight on the lower rail, it would be absolutely useless and impossible to zero it. Granted I have only shot a half dozen hand guns so I am still fairly new to this but I've never seen this before.

 

[southerncomfort]

Welcome aboard! Not sure exactly what you're asking about the sights and barrel movement, but the 380 Shield EZ uses a modified Browning locked breech design that locks the barrel in when the slide is in battery. The barrel will tilt and unlock as the slide cycles, but only AFTER the bullet has already left the barrel, so the recoil and movement of the slide shouldn't affect accuracy. A laser on the frame rail should work just like on any railed M&P. Hopefully that helps.

 

[PNW Shooter]

I will have to look at it more tonight when I get home. Maybe I have done lost my mind?? I am probably overly paranoid and all my complaining is for nothing.

Maybe I will take a video of what I am talking about if it would help? My confusion stems from the fact that the sights are attached to the slide. The slide can move from left to right on the frame itself which I thought was not correct. I guess I need to see if the barrel moves along with the slide or if they are independent??

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[MichiganScott]

The usual question is, "How does it shoot?"

You have a self defense pistol, not a target gun. You must have some looseness or the gun will not function. The gun will return to battery close enough to the original position that it will be plenty accurate for it's desired purpose.

 

[Flyingfool]

A laser is in my opinion pretty much useless. It will like any scope or other system “zero” only from one (actjally two) specific distance. As the laser and barrel are offset from each other. And the barrel may have some upward angle which launches the bullet into an arc. What this all means is that the flight trajectory and the straight line of the laser only cross at two specific points as the angles are different. Once on the bullets upward trajectory, and once again as it falls back through. These are at specific distances And technically change based on the weight of the bullet and the velocity.

The “zero” for a laser you have to decide what distance you want it to be. Maybe 10 feet would be OK as the “error” from this zero would be insignificant from zero feet until maybe 50’. And I would argue the “need” to shoot someone beyond 30 to 50’ is hard to defend in court that you were fearful of your life. The Statistics show that the VAST majority self defense shootings occur within about 20 feet.

Therefore, At close ranges that most self defense situations and distances are really meaningless or insignificant. But also because of these close distances, really renders a laser advantages to be pretty much moot.

All I know is my wife has a laser grip on her revolver (bought it ised and already had the laser grips installed) And the laser pointer is wiggling all over the place on the target unless you have the hands of a brain surgeon. Then you have a tendency to focus and concentrate and “chase” that little red or green dot all over the place and over correct then again over correct etc. it is WAY simpler for me to just use the sites on the gun. The small unsteady movements are not seen as much and my accuracy improves without the stupid laser.

MY OPINION is that on a self defense carry gun. All a laser does is add cost and weight and bulk and only slows and reduces accuracy. And inside 20’ where most shootings occur, the shooting is more reactive and pointing rather than dead nuts precision. Again IN MY OPINION, making a laser moot.

Similarly, for a concealed carry weaponn, And in MY OPINION again. A gun mounted light does little more than add weight 100% of the time for the possibility that you will even need a light. In MY OPINION, If you want or need a light, carry a separate dedicated flashlight and learn how to use it properly.

Just my experience. Other people probably have a different opinion.

Strictly home defense a weapon mounted flashlight may be OK as the weight and bulk is not really an issue. Neither is the likelihood that you will attempt to use a weapon mounted light as a flashlight, since you will likely have a dedicated flashlight somewhere else in the house to use for anything except selfe defense. Unlike if you are in tim-buck-too and the only light hou have happens to be attached to a loaded handgun. And sooner or later you will be temlted to use your loaded gun as a flashlight.

 

[sig_230]

Wish I could add a half dozen likes. A laser on a handgun is nothing but a marketing gimmick, especially on a self defense up close and personal handgun like the 380 EZ. Looks NEAT, works in the movies, pretty much pointless and useless in reality.

 

[kthom]

I have to disagree with the comments that a laser sight has no value. But I will also comment on the fact that when someone is holding a handgun with a laser sight, the laser is moving constantly. Yep, it is. And so are your sights if that's all you've got, even if you are consistently holding a good sight picture. We used to call this your "wobble area". With consistent good and correct practice, this wobble area can be reduced, but there will always be some.

The problem is that many shooters chase their sights regardless of the kind of sights present. And many will attempt to pull the trigger when the sighted gun wanders in the direction of the point on the target they want to hit. This usually results in a jerk of the trigger which disturbs the wobble area considerably as well as a poor hit. It also indicates the shooter is looking at the target instead of the sight picture! I'm talking here about target shooting, but it can also apply to defensive shooting.

The best target you will shoot is when you hold a correct sight picture with a correct grip and a consistent and proper trigger press while that sight picture is doing it's wobble thing. In the beginning (before lots of good practice) the shot grouping will be somewhat larger than you want but the group should be still pretty much centered on your aiming point. This is true if all of the above are done correctly. With time and good practice techniques, the group size will shrink because the wobble area will reduce in size, but it will still be present. The shooter's sharp focus should be on the front sight with the target slightly out of focus, with the rear sight slightly less out of focus. Old eyes compound this problem!!! Just hold your sight picture in as small a wobble area as you possibly can while still pointing at the target center and press the trigger smoothly and pull it all the way through. Don't make the gun fire when you want it to fire, just keep pressing smoothly and let it go off when it goes off. Let the sound surprise you and follow through as the gun recoils. You'll have your best outcome if you do things this way.

As I said, the laser is just a telltale sign of your wobble group! I do not use my laser sight for target shooting in the daylight. I don't pay attention to it at all. But I sure pay attention to it during the hours of darkness when I may not be able to get a great sight picture. My lasers are sighted in at ten yards. Closer or farther distances will not be dead center but will certainly be close enough to take care of personal protection business! A laser in daylight shooting when the dot can be seen on the target is helpful to identify mistakes made when firing, especially if you have someone observing from behind you and over your shoulder. If you jerk the trigger, the laser will also jerk! If you are pulling your shots low and left (or any other direction) the laser will go in that same direction! A laser is excellent for practice purposes to assist with identification of things that need improvement! Where that laser is seen to move during trigger pull will be obvious!

 

[OKFC05]

So if I aim with the sight and pull the trigger, the barrel isn't going to move with the recoil? Seems a bit odd?? If I was to put a laser sight on the lower rail, it would be absolutely useless and impossible to zero it. Granted I have only shot a half dozen hand guns so I am still fairly new to this but I've never seen this before.

Your assumptions are erroneous and reflect your lack of experience with handguns. Time to go shoot and quit trying to redesign the handgun. The average production S&W is way more accurate then the average shooter. Take it from an old, old instructor...

 

[mbliss57]

I doubt very much there is anything wrong with your gun.
I assume you bought it from a gun store? If you are concerned that is is not built correctly, simply take it back and show them the defective gun you purchased from them. There and only there will you truly find out if it is a problem. Did you not notice this issue when you were carefully inspecting the gun at the gun shop? Did other 380 EZs have the same "wiggle"? Did other types of guns not have this problem? Your answer will not be found from us as we are not there. It will be found where the gun was sourced.

 

[PNW Shooter]

I wasn't looking to get attacked or told a laser was a dumb idea. I was just asking some questions and trying to explain why I was concerned.
Some of the first things I've been told to do with a new gun is get acquainted with it and take it apart, clean it and put it back together. It was something I noticed that was unlike anything I had seen. I did not notice the movement in the Shield EZ we shot at the range, nor the other two Shields we shot that same day.

We have not shot it yet. Just picked it up yesterday and hope to give it a try this weekend. The ultimate test is of course how it shoots and if my wife will be comfortable enough to carry it.

It was purchased online (new) and shipped to a local hardware store that sells guns.

Just as a manner of course, I secured it in a vise and placed a dial indicator on the slide. Both the barrel and slide move the same amount. Maybe this is normal?? Yes I am newish to guns but so far this is the only one I have handled that did anything like this. Speaking with some of my more knowledgeable friends, they were a bit confused as well.

Video here: YouTube

Once again - thanks for the feedback both positive and constructive.

 

[mbliss57]

I wasn't looking to get attacked or told a laser was a dumb idea. I was just asking some questions and trying to explain why I was concerned.
Some of the first things I've been told to do with a new gun is get acquainted with it and take it apart, clean it and put it back together. It was something I noticed that was unlike anything I had seen. I did not notice the movement in the Shield EZ we shot at the range, nor the other two Shields we shot that same day.

We have not shot it yet. Just picked it up yesterday and hope to give it a try this weekend. The ultimate test is of course how it shoots and if my wife will be comfortable enough to carry it.

It was purchased online (new) and shipped to a local hardware store that sells guns.

Once again - thanks for the feedback both positive and constructive.

I personally did not mean to sound so harsh. The purchase of a gun online when it's a 1st firearm might not be the best idea but it is very common and easy to do. I buy many online now as well. Based on your comments above I would return it to SW or the online store for a replacement.
I would not try to solve it myself through a forum if it is new and you are new to guns.
I had a similar experience with a Ruger many years ago. I was a rifle, shot gun and wheelgun guy but never really used or owned a semi auto. I bought a Ruger SR9c from local lgs and the gun jammed from the 1st magazine I fired. I could not get through any magazine without a FTF, fail to feed. So I went online as you are doing, and got every answer under the sun for help most of which had to do with limp wristing or something else I had done wrong. I took it back to my LGS who also told me to try it a few more times because these things need to "break in" Finally I took it back to my LGS and insisted he return it to Prescott AZ where it was made for them to look at. So after 3 weeks of not having a working pistol it was on it's way back to the manufacturer. It was returned within 2 weeks. It was the same pistol with a new ejector and ejector spring in place. I took it to the range that day and and have NEVER had a problem with it since then. I still have the cheap little thing and it shoots accurately and consistently without any problems.
My point is: Everyone on a forum like this has an opinion, all or most mean well but they are not with you to physically observe or feel what you do. Since it is brand new it has a mfg warranty. Either shoot it 1st to confirm your suspicion or send it back and they will replace it. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[Real Old Navy]

Take the gun to a reputable LGS (ACE ain't the place with the help of the hardware man) and have them look at it and see what they say. As far as a laser on a gun...it can be useful in a defensive situation where your standing/crouched behind something and can't expose your body. Like in a theater (watching a Batman movie) and someone dressed in body armor and Kevlar helmet is shooting at anything that moves with a semi auto rifle and your hiding behind a row of seats. Your not looking for 1 1/2" groupings...just a good face shot.

 

[murphydog]

Welcome!

I just did the same check with a Shield 9 and can move the front of the slide (and of course the barrel, since they are connected) with light hand pressure. This may be due to the slide being supported by the frame rails at the rear and having the most leverage to torque it from the front.

I suspect this is normal but see if it groups normally (from a rest, trying different brands of .380 and perhaps getting your knowledgeable friends involved). If it does not using the lifetime warranty and getting it checked out would be in order. Please let us know what happens.

 

[Zed16]

My 9mm Shield moves much the same as yours. Fire it and see how it operates. If you are like me your hand movements will affect point of impact much more than the mechanical lock up of the pistol.

 

[Dpris]

Without trying to sound too harsh, you have no understanding of the gun & no problem whatever.

Slight upper (slide/barrel) play relative to lower (it's called a frame or receiver, not a handle) is quite common in autopistols and has little affect on accuracy.

As long as your barrel is tight inside the slide, that's what maintains the bore alignment with your sights.
If barrel & slide move together, the pistol is fine.

At the moment of ignition, your barrel is aligned with the sights on the slide as one cohesive unit.

There may be some slight differences in the relationship of the slide to the frame from shot to shot, but those are completely irrelevant with iron sights because the SLIDE and SIGHT relationship remains exactly the same from shot to shot, regardless of some slight lateral "wiggle" between upper assembly and lower assembly.

You'll see some degree of "looseness" on most autos nowdays, and it was deliberately built into the tolerances of the early Colt 1911 pistols
to assist reliability.

Contrary to popular opinion, a very tight slide-to-frame fit is NOT an absolute guarantor of accuracy.
It helps, but it's not needed on most "working" pistols.

As for a laser, it'll be fine.
The laser is a sighting aid, and generally not considered a "target-grade" sighting device on a pistol of this type.
It can be, on other designs, but not here.

In other words- even with a slight difference in the relationship between slide and frame from shot to shot (and it WILL be slight), there won't be enough difference to adversely affect the degree of accuracy you should reasonably expect from a laser on this platform.

You can easily zero a laser on your pistol, and it'll give you repeatable accuracy and repeatable point of aim/point of impact, WITHIN acceptable parameters for the design and manufacture.

Unless you have a degree of slide looseness way beyond anything the factory would let out the door, you have no problem with your pistol whatever.

Go shoot the thing & quit over-thinking it.
Denis

 

[murphydog]

I would also add that with the forces generated with firing a gun, ‘everything’ flexes. If the flexing is relatively controlled and reproducible the gun will shoot better than humans can hold it.

 

[PNW Shooter]

Thanks for the input everybody. I am an engineer at heart and do tend to over analyze things at times. I do have limited experience with guns but as with everything, there is a learning curve.

We will go shoot it and if everything seems fine - just roll with it

 

[MichiganScott]

Thanks for the input everybody. I am an engineer at heart and do tend to over analyze things at times. I do have limited experience with guns but as with everything, there is a learning curve.

We will go shoot it and if everything seems fine - just roll with it

Come back and tell us how your range session goes. I suspect that you will be very happy with the gun and it's accuracy.