38S&W--- 38-200 Brit

[Old and Grumpier]

I am new to this forum. I post on others so I know how it works.

I am getting conflicting info on bullet diameter for 38 S&W / 38-200 Brit.

Some are saying I need a .360.

Lee first edition reloading hand book from 1970? (old obscure round old book) calls for a .357/358 bullet.

The Barnes Cartridges of the World from the same time does not list a DI.

Both have loads from 145gr to 200gr.

This is for a Victory mod. We think it might have Brit after market marks. My kid will post pics at some point.

Thanks for any help.

 

[rockquarry]

The Lyman manual #49 has all specs and load data. Perhaps the latest edition has the same information. I've never loaded the .38 S&W, but in conflict with the Lyman bullet diameter, I'd use the largest diameter cast bullet that will allow easy cartridge chambering. Also, slip a bullet through the cylinder throats. If it shows slight resistance, it should be the right diameter. .357" or .358" cast bullets will work, but probably won't be too accurate.

Jacketed bullets are much easier to work with. An undersize jacketed bullet may provide good accuracy.

 

[Andy Lowry]

I have a box of Missouri coated .38 S&W bullets handy, and they're .361, which is what my Lee guide says they should be.

 

[Old and Grumpier]

Thanks. My powder guy says it should be cast lead not jacketed. I have lots of .358.

 

[Kiwi cop]

I tried shooting both lead and plated 158 gn .357 projectiles in my 1942 civilian Victory revolver and accuracy was terrible. At least 1 in 5 bullets would tumble at 10 yards/meters and often there would be off target shots at 25 yards/meters. Groups were non-existent especially once I moved past "short" range.

I was looking for a suitable .361 bullet mould when someone suggested 148 gn HBWC's. They shoot great in my gun. No more bullet tumble and as long as I do my part no more target misses.

They may impact the target low due to the lighter mass, but then the 158's will also do the same. In my case I aim a little high at the 25 yard/meters line (and slightly off to the right) and still manage to hit the 10 ring on a B-18 target regularly with all shots inside the 8 ring,h again as long as I do my part). At the 10 yard/meter line the POA is the POI on target.

The hollow base expands to fit oversized bores (in my example the bore is .3605 when slugged and mic'd). I started off with lead bullets but my supplier has now gone to plated, and I use these exclusively in both the Victory and my 686-4.

Try some .357 158 gn projectiles and if they don't work give the HBWC's a go.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I shoot mine with cupped base 158 lead SWC or, on occasion, 148 HBWC. works fine with both. I have also shot with 158 grain plain base and I sometimes get a bit of tumble.

 

[Old and Grumpier]

Thanks. I have Lee 148gr tumble lube wad cutters.

 

[6string]

What type of reloading dies are you using?
Are they specific to the 38 S&W cartridge, or are they 38 Special?

A lot of things need to match up to get best results. A case run through a 38 Special carbide die is going to swage down a .360-.361" lead bullet just from squeezing it into the case.

Believe it or not, but the old 38 S&W cartridge is capable of amazing accuracy, but a lot comes into play. Chamber dimensions, throat diameters, bore diameter....hopefully these are all agreeable to each other, whatever the exact numbers. Then, you need to match the correct bullet.
At that point, the reloading dies come into play. You want the right amount of case neck tension to ensure consistent powder ignition and pressure. Yet, you have to avoid distorting the bullet just from the seating process.
We tend to take it all for granted with SAAMI standardized modern cartridges and the gear we use to reload. But, once we start playing with the oldies it's a whole new ballgame.
Potentially, it's also a whole lot more fun. But, not so much when a neglected variable emerges.

There's lots of good shooting to be had with stuff like the 38 S&W, 455 Eley, 44 American, 41 Colt, etc.

Please post some more specs!

Enjoy!
Jim

PS:
The HBWC suggestion is a good one, and is a classic quick fix. Many old ammo makers used a hollow base bullet to help obturate the slug for a variety of makes/tolerances used for whatever the cartridge may have been.

 

[sigp220.45]

I reload .38 S&W with my old Lyman 310 tool. I generally use 148 grain hollow-based wadcutters and a shot of Unique. The accuracy in my Victory Models and Terrier is at least as good as factory ammo.

I've also used the 125 and 158 grain cast bullets I had on hand for loading .38 Specials, and the accuracy was plenty good for just shooting paper at the range.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The 38 S&W uses a .360"/.361" bullet. Can you use a .358" bullet, sure as long as the neck tension will hold the bullet but that's not guaranteed. Accuracy will probably be poor with a .358" bullet too unless they are very soft .

The correct bullets are not expensive, go with them.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

.The correct bullets are not expensive, go with them.

+1 on what he said.

I bought a box of 500 cast 200 gr RN, sized .358 for 35 Remington about 30 years ago. They worked fair in the Marlin 336, but were great in my Webley revolver duplicating the English load. You just don't use many! I still have around 200.

Don't use 38 Special/357 Mag dies! There is a slight tapper to the case and the wrong dies can ruin your brass. A commercial reloader did a batch of 10,000 this way. They shot great but every case split just above the web. I only buy commercial ammo to get the brass!

For some years now there has been 38 S&W brass from South Africa floating around at a very good price. These are regular brass with no headstamp. They were intended for igniting Mortar ammo but, They are fine for any revolver too!

Ivan

 

[M1A]

I load for a Webley MkIII, '29, that slugged at .357. It is stamped 38. I use .358 158gr SWC from Missouri Bullet. Works great. .360 went high right.
My Enfield No.2 Mk1, '39, however, does use the .361 200gr from Matt's Bullets.
Both pistols shoot fine with factory. Remington, Privi, and Fiocchi, are ones that I have used. They measure .357 or .358. I don't know if their bullets are hollow based or not.
I use Hornady 38 S&W dies and others are available.
W231 is my main powder, but I worked one up for Titegroup.
I weigh each load as opposed to dumping.
Mind how you go as the US top breaks are not as substantial as the Brits'. This does not apply to your Model 10.
Lots of fun to shoot.

 

[2152hq]

When I had a S&W Victory in 38S&W I loaded w/ LEE 38S&W dies.

I used regular 38sp 158gr SWC lead bullets, Accuracy was just fine at 25yrds, no tumbling, ect.

To get the brass to have the proper neck tension on the smaller dia bullet,.
I used to FL size the brass, but not expand it with the dies.

That left the cases a few .000 small in dia and perfect to accept the .357d bullets for seating with some resistance. IIRC, I simply put a very slight roll crimp on them. Maybe just straightened out the flare described below.

To flare the case mouths for seating, I would put all the sized (and primed!) cases on the anvil portion of my bench vise.
Then w/an old lathe center, I bounce from one to the next quickly with a single light tap of a small hammer on the center to lightly flare each case. You can do 50 cases in a little over a minute with no problem.

I charge one at a time and immedietly seat the bullet for a completed rd. The press is mounted on a block in that same vise. Scoop measures for the powder. I think I used RedDot.
Fun Caliber!