38s&w more powerful than a .380?

[donniedee]

which would be a better carry round? out of these two? the 38s&w looks like a bigger thumper of the 2? thoughts? i plan on carrying a lil i frame 38s&w terrier as a back for the remainder of my carrier and will use off the shelf loads. heck i wouldnt wanna be shot with it. better that a flat rock?

 

[David LaPell]

The .38 S & W has really a dismal performance record, despite how many guns were chambered for it. The commercially available 146 grain lead bullets for the factory is around 750 fps whereas a 90 grain bullet from a .380 is about 1,000 fps. It's tough to say which is better because one weighs half of the other. Personally I would get a snubbie .38 Special and be done with it. .38 S & W could not be fired in .38 Special because of the bullet diameter difference. On a side note, Teddy Roosevelt was shot in the chest at point blank range with a .38 S & W and the bullet was slowed quite a bit, some say by his folded speech, others an eyeglass case. The bullet did get his chest, but Teddy finished the speech anyway. Not exactly the best in stopping power.

 

[Old cop]

I've watched this argument go back and forth for decades. It really comes down to shot placement so whatever gun you shoot the best, go with that. Load it with modern self defense ammo, train and hope you never have to find out what the real answer is.

 

[walnutred]

I do not think there is much practical difference between 380 ball and 38 S&W. There is what, 15ft lbs +/- between the two? 38 S&W probably does beat 32 ACP ball though, which a lot of people carry. I suspect that the lead projectile of the 38 S&W is more effective in soft tissue than either ball ctg though.

 

[nutsforsmiths]

I have shot both rounds a lot over the years. I also reload for 38 S&W. I found that the Fiocchi 38 S&W FMJ has quite a bit more get up them the lead ball Remington you can buy off the shelf.

I have carried my Terrier and my Walther PPK/s. Both are comfortable, but I actually shoot the Terrier better then the Walther.

So, as has already been mentioned, carry the one you shoot best and hope you never have to use it.

 

[hatt]

...Ball ammo is a bad choice for defense in any caliber

Ball isn't a bad choice in weak rounds. .380 HP, even the newer stuff, just don't work consistently. The best way to deal with the .380 is sell it and buy a much more effective little 9 or .38.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

MODERN AMMO, That is what makes the difference in the performance of the 38sp and the 380. I have clocked 125gr +P at 1250ftps out of my 4in 64, That is deadly in any circumstance. But for a really small auto for carry the 380 is PERFECT stoked with corbons. you would be well armed with either. Ball ammo is a bad choice for defense in any caliber

BUT, the OP is talking about the .38 S&W, not the .38 S&W Special.

The only way I would carry a .38 S&W is with ammo of my making, not with anything currently available form the factory manufacturers.

 

[BUFF]

The best thing you can do with that Terrier is to trade it for an equivalent Chiefs Special. .38 S&W ammunition isn't commonly found and pretty well never is cheap. There is not much choice in bullet design (round nose lead versus round nose full metal jacket) or weight.

The .38 Special round of the Chiefs Special is perhaps the most widely available revolver round in the country. Huge number of bullet designs, weights and velocities to choose from. There are inexpensive loadings that allow you to shoot the gun regularly, and I believe that bullet placement will matter most if you ever need the gun for serious, so frequent practice is a good thing..

Plus, you can shoot .38 Special ammunition in your .357 Magnum.

While ANY gun is better than no gun in a crisis, the .38 S&W has pretty well reached the level of a hobbyist item these days. Nothing horribly wrong with it but there really hasn't been any ammunition development for it in 65 years or more. The last big leap forward was non-corrosive primers, which is nice, but doesn't matter at all in a gunfight.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree with "BUFF". If you don't reload where you can customize your load you would be better served with a .38 Special revolver.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Every off the shelf .38 SW I have seen is still the old failure lead round nose bullet. I would think if you could find some that had at least something like a flat round nose of some sort that might make a difference. If a SWC could be found for it then I would be much more at east with that. But again, I have never seen such ammo loaded in .38 SW. You could always try casting your own. I bet you could buy a cheap Lee two cavity mold, cast a pair of bullets, coat the mold cavity with a mild abrasive, drill the back of the two bullets to hold some screws, and use a drill bit to slowly spin them and check every so often until you get the desired cast diameter from them. It would take some work but the results might really be worth it in the long run. You could even sell the mold as being good for .361 or .362 diameter bullets after you cast enough of them for your needs. And reloading or casting equipment sells pretty well even used.

 

[mkk41]

Barrel Length 4" - 4" - 4"

Caliber 380 Auto 380 Auto 38 S&W

Energy 100yds 146 - 130 - 125

Energy 50 165 - 160 - 135

Energy Muzz 191 - 190 - 150

Vel 100yd 868 - 785 - 620

Vel 50yds 920 - 865 - 650

Vel Muzzle 990 - 955 - 685

Wt grs 88hp - 95fmj - 146lrn

 

[jimmyj]

In the past I was issued a .380acp with PMC JHP ammo.
The test with this ammo was IMPRESSIVE!

 

[Powder Burns]

I think it would be difficult, and too risky anyway, to try to load a .38 S&W up to modern 380 ACP self-defense ammo capability...especially now that there are +P 380 factory loads that can kick out 250 ft. lbs. or more of actual, measured, muzzle energy for use in guns that can withstand it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You do realize the last answer this thread was 8 months ago, right?

 

[Powder Burns]

You do realize the last answer this thread was 8 months ago, right?

Yes they are dated at the top. What's your point?

 

[Pointblank2U]

They make some darn good .380 rounds these days.. I'll go with that.

 

[Powder Burns]

They do. I tried Buffalo Bore +P and got a solid, chonographed 229 ft. lbs. muzzle energy average from a 2.75 inch barrel. That's 52% more power than from my 5" barrel Webley Mark IV with 38 S&W 146 gr factory loads. If one could find the right bullets in .360" or about that size, and IF the cartridge case and gun would take the pressure, the 38 S&W could probably be loaded to almost 9mm levels because of its case capacity, but in reality, even if the cartridge case held together and didn't explode out the rear, the gun would probably explode.
Just mentioned for the sake of interest. I stumbled on this thread while looking for 380-200 load data for that same Webley .38.

 

[Texas Star]

No one has raised the issue of the autos' reliability. Berettas usually run well, but many other .380's don't.

I'd carry the .380 if reliable, and carry a spare magazine or two.

I much prefer the small .38 Special revolver. I've read Massad Ayoob's article about shooting pigs in a slaughterhouse with snub .38's and with .380's.

He found the lead HP PLus P .38 to be much more effective on living animals. Penetration was a factor in taking head shots and hitting the brains.

 

[Roundsworth]

Penetration is an important factor. This rubber target was hit with a factory loaded 38 S&W at about 25 yards. While it probably isn't the best medium for testing bullet performance, I thought it was interesting!

 

[Powder Burns]

No one has raised the issue of the autos' reliability. Berettas usually run well, but many other .380's don't...

True that. As for comparing the 38 S&W and the 380 ACP, I am assuming a reliable auto. If I'm carrying a small revolver, I much prefer the .38 Spl. to the S&W. But if carrying a reliable, very small pocket auto, the 380 is a pretty good choice these days, in my opinion.

Penetration is an important factor. This rubber target was hit with a factory loaded 38 S&W at about 25 yards. While it probably isn't the best medium for testing bullet performance, I thought it was interesting!

I always like to say, "expansion is nice, but enough penetration is essential." Neither of these calibers are exceptional in this regard, but if I had to shoot through a car door or glass, I'd take the 380 FMJ +P and hope for the best.