38SA 1st Model "Baby Russian"

[ThomasFiske]

I believe this is a first model 38SA "Baby Russian". Serial # is in the 10000-11000 range. I was not able to find any resource readily available online to give me the exact year of manufacture. I'm curious if anyone here might be able to provide me with that information or anything else as far as history.

Known history:

This revolver belonged to my great grandfather, born in 1863. He died in 1943. Although born in New England (Maine), he was well traveled and spent time in the southwestern United States, as well as south of the border, in the late 19th century. When he finally settled back in Maine, he became a well-known guide. He also carried this pistol when he was responsible for the deliverance of Great Northern Paper's payroll.

Upon his death, the piece passed to my grandfather. Every childhood visit to my grandfather's house, found me asking to see this gun. It was kept in a leather holster, which i believe led to the deterioration of the finish. It has been known to me for over 50 years and during that time, the trigger spring has always been broken. I intend to rectify this to restore the weapon to its proper working order. All other features functions as intended.

In advance, I thank you for any and all information

Tom

 

[mmaher94087]

It is definitely a 1st Model .38 Single Action, aka. "Baby Russian". Storing it in a leather holster will cause the finish to deteriorate.

 

[BMur]

Replace trigger spring

Tom,
You should replace the trigger spring with a coil spring. Very simple task and works great.

Murph

 

[ThomasFiske]

Tom,
You should replace the trigger spring with a coil spring. Very simple task and works great.

Murph

I'd be interested to know the process.

 

[BMur]

Procedure to replace trigger spring

Hey Tom,
No problem. I'll be working on some antiques tomorrow. I'll post some photos for you.
This will get you started;

1) Always remove the grips "before" doing any work on the antique revolver to prevent damage to same.

Back the grip screw out several turns then gently tap on the head of the screw to loosen the opposite side grip. The concept is to be gentle so you don't crack the grip at the alignment pin at the base of the hard rubber grip. Be gentle and take your time slowly working the grip loose from that pin.

Then remove the screw and gently remove the loosened grip. Then tap on the remaining grip softly from the inside base(bottom) to loosen from alignment pin. Gently remove and place both scales and screw into a tray that collects all removed parts.

To be continued

Murph

 

[ThomasFiske]

Hey Tom,
No problem. I'll be working on some antiques tomorrow. I'll post some photos for you.
This will get you started;

1) Always remove the grips "before" doing any work on the antique revolver to prevent damage to same.

Back the grip screw out several turns then gently tap on the head of the screw to loosen the opposite side grip. The concept is to be gentle so you don't crack the grip at the alignment pin at the base of the hard rubber grip. Be gentle and take your time slowly working the grip loose from that pin.

Then remove the screw and gently remove the loosened grip. Then tap on the remaining grip softly from the inside base(bottom) to loosen from alignment pin. Gently remove and place both scales and screw into a tray that collects all removed parts.

To be continued

Murph

Thank you, lookin' forward to it.

 

[BMur]

Action test

Ok Tom,
The first step before we get into the trigger spring replacement is to "confirm" the action functions normally.

The way to do this is an old gunsmith's trick.
Safety first: gun is unloaded and grips removed.
See photo 1.
Place your left hand over the top of the barrel forward of the cylinder so the cylinder can spin freely during the test. Hold the gun firmly.
Place your thumb as seen in the photo against the rear of the spur trigger and pull forward towards the barrel. Not really hard but firm pressure.
What this does is applies tension to the trigger sear against the hammer and cylinder bolt and acts to replace the trigger spring tension.
Next: Work the single action slowly and confirm the first safety notch functions and locks the hammer.(first click)
This should also free up the cylinder so it spins freely.

Next pull the hammer slowly all the way back to battery. What must happen now is the cylinder should spin and lock up tight and the hammer should also lock at full cock.

Let me know if any of these steps DO NOT FUNCTION NORMALLY and we will go from there.

Murph

 

[BMur]

Spur trigger design

Moving forward,
Unknown to the majority of collectors is the trigger V spring was quite often replaced/modified by early gunsmiths to a coil spring when a customer brought their gun in for repair.
See photo 1.
The gunsmith would remove the typically broken V spring then drill a boss or channel into the spur trigger and install a coil spring. This was not only a permanent repair it was an improvement to the flawed V spring design that very often broke.

You can see both damage to the sear and poor center drilling from the gunsmith modification. Damage to the sear would require welding to build metal and repair the action. Damage to the hammer is also very common and would also require welding and re-cutting the sear slots.

I've seen all of these conditions on the Baby Russian and also repaired them. It's a relatively easy repair more often than not.
In the late 1800's gunsmiths would replace broken parts with new parts but I have actually seen early repairs to broken Sears that amounted to machine cutting and fitting/pressing a new sear. It's fabulous work when found.
They didn't have a new part so they had to repair the existing part before welding/electricity was invented. Using skills that are now lost to history.

Murph

 

[ThomasFiske]

Ok Tom,
The first step before we get into the trigger spring replacement is to "confirm" the action functions normally.

The way to do this is an old gunsmith's trick.
Safety first: gun is unloaded and grips removed.
See photo 1.
Place your left hand over the top of the barrel forward of the cylinder so the cylinder can spin freely during the test. Hold the gun firmly.
Place your thumb as seen in the photo against the rear of the spur trigger and pull forward towards the barrel. Not really hard but firm pressure.
What this does is applies tension to the trigger sear against the hammer and cylinder bolt and acts to replace the trigger spring tension.
Next: Work the single action slowly and confirm the first safety notch functions and locks the hammer.(first click)
This should also free up the cylinder so it spins freely.

Next pull the hammer slowly all the way back to battery. What must happen now is the cylinder should spin and lock up tight and the hammer should also lock at full cock.

Let me know if any of these steps DO NOT FUNCTION NORMALLY and we will go from there.

Murph

I performed what you described and all remaining functions of the gun remain intact and operate as designed.

 

[ThomasFiske]

Moving forward,
Unknown to the majority of collectors is the trigger V spring was quite often replaced/modified by early gunsmiths to a coil spring when a customer brought their gun in for repair.
See photo 1.
The gunsmith would remove the typically broken V spring then drill a boss or channel into the spur trigger and install a coil spring. This was not only a permanent repair it was an improvement to the flawed V spring design that very often broke.

You can see both damage to the sear and poor center drilling from the gunsmith modification. Damage to the sear would require welding to build metal and repair the action. Damage to the hammer is also very common and would also require welding and re-cutting the sear slots.

I've seen all of these conditions on the Baby Russian and also repaired them. It's a relatively easy repair more often than not.
In the late 1800's gunsmiths would replace broken parts with new parts but I have actually seen early repairs to broken Sears that amounted to machine cutting and fitting/pressing a new sear. It's fabulous work when found.
They didn't have a new part so they had to repair the existing part before welding/electricity was invented. Using skills that are now lost to history.

Murph

This does appear to be a much better design. Recommendations on what spring to use?

 

[BMur]

Spring

Wow,
I'm actually amazed that there are no other issues with the action. That's huge!

Ok the spring is easy. Go to EBay or whatever website you choose and punch in "COIL SPRING ASSORTMENT".

See photo.

About 10$-14$ free shipping. Then you have plenty to choose from. Modern coil springs are high quality so you honestly can't go wrong.

One last tip is make sure when you install the coil spring it's not too long or it will cause the action to bind. Look closely at the photo I posted of the trigger with a coil spring. Try to match that one.

GOOD LUCK!

Murph

 

[ThomasFiske]

Wow,
I'm actually amazed that there are no other issues with the action. That's huge!

Ok the spring is easy. Go to EBay or whatever website you choose and punch in "COIL SPRING ASSORTMENT".

See photo.

About 10$-14$ free shipping. Then you have plenty to choose from. Modern coil springs are high quality so you honestly can't go wrong.

One last tip is make sure when you install the coil spring it's not too long or it will cause the action to bind. Look closely at the photo I posted of the trigger with a coil spring. Try to match that one.

GOOD LUCK!

Murph

Thank you. I will give this a shot.

 

[Jay Hall]

Spur trigger design

Moving forward,
Unknown to the majority of collectors is the trigger V spring was quite often replaced/modified by early gunsmiths to a coil spring when a customer brought their gun in for repair.
See photo 1.
The gunsmith would remove the typically broken V spring then drill a boss or channel into the spur trigger and install a coil spring. This was not only a permanent repair it was an improvement to the flawed V spring design that very often broke.

You can see both damage to the sear and poor center drilling from the gunsmith modification. Damage to the sear would require welding to build metal and repair the action. Damage to the hammer is also very common and would also require welding and re-cutting the sear slots.

I've seen all of these conditions on the Baby Russian and also repaired them. It's a relatively easy repair more often than not.
In the late 1800's gunsmiths would replace broken parts with new parts but I have actually seen early repairs to broken Sears that amounted to machine cutting and fitting/pressing a new sear. It's fabulous work when found.
They didn't have a new part so they had to repair the existing part before welding/electricity was invented. Using skills that are now lost to history.

Murph

I had one of my nice 1st model Schofields action repaired many years ago by David Chicoine and he did a super job but also VERY expensive, but that was OK,,so sad when he passed on under some sad circumstances. My antiques are never shot and rarely handled. I love them like I do my Grand Children.

 

[Jay Hall]

Procedure to replace trigger spring

Hey Tom,
No problem. I'll be working on some antiques tomorrow. I'll post some photos for you.
This will get you started;

1) Always remove the grips "before" doing any work on the antique revolver to prevent damage to same.

Back the grip screw out several turns then gently tap on the head of the screw to loosen the opposite side grip. The concept is to be gentle so you don't crack the grip at the alignment pin at the base of the hard rubber grip. Be gentle and take your time slowly working the grip loose from that pin.

Then remove the screw and gently remove the loosened grip. Then tap on the remaining grip softly from the inside base(bottom) to loosen from alignment pin. Gently remove and place both scales and screw into a tray that collects all removed parts.

To be continued

Murph

Great info, thanks!

 

[cgt4570]

Spur trigger design

Moving forward,
Unknown to the majority of collectors is the trigger V spring was quite often replaced/modified by early gunsmiths to a coil spring when a customer brought their gun in for repair.
See photo 1.
The gunsmith would remove the typically broken V spring then drill a boss or channel into the spur trigger and install a coil spring. This was not only a permanent repair it was an improvement to the flawed V spring design that very often broke.

You can see both damage to the sear and poor center drilling from the gunsmith modification. Damage to the sear would require welding to build metal and repair the action. Damage to the hammer is also very common and would also require welding and re-cutting the sear slots.

I've seen all of these conditions on the Baby Russian and also repaired them. It's a relatively easy repair more often than not.
In the late 1800's gunsmiths would replace broken parts with new parts but I have actually seen early repairs to broken Sears that amounted to machine cutting and fitting/pressing a new sear. It's fabulous work when found.
They didn't have a new part so they had to repair the existing part before welding/electricity was invented. Using skills that are now lost to history.

Murph

Great info! I've always cut a new V spring from one of those office supply black binder clips with the chrome 'squeeze wire' things. They come in several sizes, and I've never had one break.

 

[iby]

I have also used these to make new springs