3913 as tough/tougher than P239?

[josywales]

I'm wondering if mind over matter is playing with me here. Why do I believe that my P239 is more durable than my 3913?

The P239 feels more durable, because of slightly more heft
The P239 looks more durable, because it's a black gun

I grab the P239 and expect it to be a Glock-like tool. Go bang every time.

I have zero reasons to believe the 3913 wouldn't be every bit as good and durable as the P239 or Glock.

So, is there any reason to believe that the 3913 isn't every bit as durable/reliable/strong as my P239? It's just a mental block on my part?

 

[915]

I think they're both very well built pistols. With the proper care, neither is going to fail in your lifetime.


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[GaryS]

The only real complaint I've heard about the 239 is that the grips are thicker than the 3913. Then again, people complain about how thin the grips are on the 3913.

Everytime I see a 239 listed, I'm very tempted, but I have held out so far.

 

[nocents]

So, is there any reason to believe that the 3913 isn't every bit as durable/reliable/strong as my P239?

No..........................................and I own and like Sigs

 

[ColbyBruce]

I currently own a S&W 3953 and Sig P239's in .40 S&W and .357 Sig. I believe the two are equally robust and well made. I think the deciding factor would be between the calibers, unless you specifically wanted a 9mm or preferred the S&W ambidextrous Safety to the Sig decocker. Size and weight are nearly identical.

I owned two 3913 models but prefer the 908/3953 pistols.

 

[josywales]

Thanks guys. I have and enjoy both pistols as well - actually a few variants of the 3900s. Just needed to get my head on about why I felt like the Sig was more robust, when I know it isn't. I think part of it, too, is that with my particular specimens, I don't mind using the Sig as a tool, but the S&Ws I want to baby. I'll have to shoot them more and get out of that funk!

 

[GerSan69]

Other than one's an S&W and one's a SIG, there isn't much difference that I can see. They're both excellent firearms from excellent companies.
I think the only issue would be if you had one and really wanted the other instead. I have two 3913s, a 908, a 3914DAO, and no SIGs, so I guess you can tell where I stand.

 

[GeoJelly]

As much as I like my alu framed S&W's - they do have a big flaw IMO. The steel barrel is raked across the alu frame every time the slide cycles. Take a look at the frame and frame rails around the front of the magazine well next time you disassemble one. At least on mine, they are chewed up even on low-mileage versions. The SIG's have a steel locking block which eliminates that point of wear. The SIG's were/have been designed for a lot of use from the get go.

 

[SWCZSIG-Vinny]

As much as I like my alu framed S&W's - they do have a big flaw IMO. The steel barrel is raked across the alu frame every time the slide cycles. Take a look at the frame and frame rails around the front of the magazine well next time you disassemble one. At least on mine, they are chewed up even on low-mileage versions. The SIG's have a steel locking block which eliminates that point of wear. The SIG's were/have been designed for a lot of use from the get go.

You raise a good issue.
Because of the different metal and high pressure at these points I believe it's recommended to use a grease where one metal slides against another to prevent galling.
I use Extreme Weapons Grease or Enos's Slide-Glide on my S&W's, CZ's and Sigs. I use Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil on points that rotate.
IMHO An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure so I prefer to run 'em a little slick and wet.

 

[stansdds]

As much as I like my alu framed S&W's - they do have a big flaw IMO. The steel barrel is raked across the alu frame every time the slide cycles. Take a look at the frame and frame rails around the front of the magazine well next time you disassemble one. At least on mine, they are chewed up even on low-mileage versions. The SIG's have a steel locking block which eliminates that point of wear. The SIG's were/have been designed for a lot of use from the get go.

You raise a good issue.
Because of the different metal and high pressure at these points I believe it's recommended to use a grease where one metal slides against another to prevent galling.
I use Extreme Weapons Grease or Enos's Slide-Glide on my S&W's, CZ's and Sigs. I use Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil on points that rotate.
IMHO An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure so I prefer to run 'em a little slick and wet.

You definitely want to use a very thin film of grease, I use white lithium, on the barrel cams and the frame rails of S&W aluminum receiver pistols. Oil is too thin and some oils tend to evaporate, leaving these high friction surfaces too dry.

You also want to frequently change the recoil spring. A weak spring will accelerate wear and battering of the receiver. With standard pressure ammo, I'd say change this spring every 3000-3500 rounds in the compact pistols, every 4000 rounds in full size pistols. Change the spring even more often if you use +P ammo.

 

[GaryS]

A number of members here, including Fast Bolt and BMCM, have written extensively on the care and maintenance of alloy framed 3rd Gens.

As others have noted here, keeping the frame rails and lugs lubricated is key to a long life.

I also use Lithium grease, specifically Lubriplate 105 assembly lube. Keeping the coating thin is one of the keys to success.

 

[mauser9]

Great posts! Sounds like the 239 is a great alternative. Always liked the Sig line.

 

[mbliss57]

OK let's look at some facts. I own both and love both. But the Sig is a heavier and hardier pistol in all respects. Is it overdesigned? Maybe, but it is heaver, thicker on the internals.
Outer dimensions are exactly or extremely close to the same as I measure them except for the grip which I measure at 1/32 thicker with the G10 grips.
Pics will follow but here are the weights.

Entire pistol w/o mag
SW 21.9 OZ SIG 25.9 Oz

Lower w/o barrel
SW 8.3 OZ SIG 11.3 OZ

Barrel with spring
SW 3.3 OZ SIG 3.7 OZ

Slide only
SW 10.3OZ SIG 11.1oz

Here are advantages I come up with.

3913
Lighter for carry
Completely shrouded bobbed hammer
Ambi decocker for left handed folks (3913, 3914 only)

Sig P239
Less felt recoil
Parts still readily available (recently discontinued)
Easier to disassemble and reassemble
Decocker is smaller more compressed
Short reset trigger system available
SAS dehorned package available
Full rail along entire lower frame
Thicker grip

That all said...
I prefer to carry the 3913/14NL due to weight.
Both are very dependable and I have never had any problems with Sig P239 or with the 3913/14. Both will out last me..

 

[squidsix]

The main difference for me is magazines. The Sigg has commonality with no other pistol when it comes to mags. The Smith and Wesson has commonality with other single stack 9 mm pistols in the Smith and Wesson line. With the exception of the CS9 the 3913 can use mags from every single model of single stack 9 mm Smith & Wesson.

 

[SWCZSIG-Vinny]

Thanks mbliss57 for an excellent comparison.
Really nice collection you have there!

Always wondered how is the DAK trigger on the SIG P239 SAS? IE pull weight, smoothness, reset point?

 

[mbliss57]

Squid six that's very true. But one of the main reasons I like the P239 is I can have 3 calibers with 1 lower. I can use the 9mm slide on the 40/357 Sig frame.
On the 40/357 Sig I Just need to change barrels.. same .40 magazines work with both calibers. Some even just put the 9mm barrel and spring in the .40/357 frame and slide. ( not Sig sanctioned)
The frame is the same for all 3 except for the mag well opening. So you can put the 9 in the 357/40 but not visa versa.
This is something I think SW intentionally did not allow us to do so they could sell more guns. The current M&P line is still that way.
I am actually selling the 9mm I show as I carry a Sig 357sig. I just need a 9mm slide to make the 3rd caliber. So that gun will be redundant. Plus I have the 3914 in 9mm anyway.


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[Old_Cop]

As has been pointed out, the Sig is more robust and I would expect that it would last longer in regular use. However if I shot them regularly at 100 rounds per month, it would be over 4 years before reaching 5000 rounds and replacing the recoil springs. If the life expectancy of the pistols is 20,000 rounds with care, that's 16 years. What's the chances of that happening? So shoot and carry either one, you won't wear it out.

 

[squidsix]

I hadnt considered caliber swaps because I have no use for .40 or .357 Sig, but that could be considered a benefit.
I had the 225 for a while and didnt care for it. But the 239 is poorly balanced, for me.
I agree that the Sig might wear out faster.
Value of robustness per price, however, would be an interesting discussion. My last 3914 cost me $450 used. I dont know a lot about the 239 market but a casual glance tells me that its about $75-$100 more on average around here.

 

[Rock185]

I've owned and carried both. I switched from the 239 to the 3913 simply because the 3913 fit my hand better. I "suspect" the SIG might be more durable for a few reasons; the slide is a bit more massive, the SIG takes the force of unlocking on a steel insert rather than aluminum alloy shoulders as in the S&W frame, and the anodizing on the SIG frames and rails has proven more durable than the anodizing on my Colt and S&W alloy frames.

But in well maintained pistols, any potential durability advantage is likely academic. Both great little pistols IMHO.

 

[BAM-BAM]

I like Sigs..... I have both a W.Ger 220 and an all steel american model;along with a pair of 245s and a 229 with both .357sig/.40 barrels.

For me the 3913NL with Hogue Checkered wood grips and 7round flush fit magazine is the gun I want to "carry" all day in my Burb of the Burgh... just in case. Its actually weights within a oz or two of the Walther PPK it replaced.

If I thought I might have a greater than a "very very small chance" of actually having to use a gun that day ......I'd be opting for a bigger/heavier gun with a lot more bullets...... or just stay home!!!!