40 s&w 200gr nosler hunting load

[Daddy]

1st let me start by saying I know 200gr is heavy for 40 s&w. I have three 10mm's as well as many othe calibers that are better suited for hunting. I know there is much better energy and expansion from lighter bullets. But this post is specifically about 40 s&w and 200gr bullets. So if you don't have anything useful to add to the conversation regarding specifically 40 s&w with 200gr bullets your comments will be ignored.

Now with that out of the way, I'm hoping that there are some in here with experience loading 200gr bullets (I'm using nosler asp) in 40 please chime in, your input is appreciated. I intend to hunt this season with my 40 s&w. I want to get through and through penetration on oklahoma whitetail which in my area are generally no more than 150ish lbs. My logic is that with a 200gr bullet at the velocities that I'd get from 40 I would not get the rapid explosive expansion that I get from 10mm. Which in theory should give modest expansion and deeper penetration. And I believe that the 200gr nosler should get some expansion @950fps impact velocities. I'm currently loaded to book max with 6.0gr of longshot and getting 944fps at the muzzle. I'd like to squeeze a little more out of it if it's practical. Has anyone here tried pushing a 200gr jacketed bullet any faster than that out of a 40. And if so what powder did you use.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Hodgdon' lists the 200gr XTP with 6.0 LS as 32,500 psi...

40 S&W maximum SAMMI pressure is 35,000 psi.

Nosler's load data shows 5.9 @ a 79% "LOAD DENSITY"...

It would appear there's "room" to develop what you are looking for, both from a pressure standpoint and a volume standpoint. With a chronograph it shouldn't take very long (or a lot of additional LS, either?).

Cheers!

P.S. I load most of my 200gr .400 bullets in 10mm.

 

[Rogeronimo]

Appears you're doing everything correctly, and I believe Longshot is the perfect powder. It's what I use for 250gn JHP 45acp loads.

 

[Transamconvert]

I think it depends quite a lot on what you're using to launch them.

If it was a revolver, or something with a known well supported chamber, I would see how long I could load them and go from there. There's lots of load data out there from competition shooting long loaded heavy bullets in .40 that might serve as a reference point. I was always of the opinion that if you could stretch the oal there exists the potential to warm up .40. I wouldn't try it in anything that is known to bulge brass.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

As mentioned, the key to maximizing a 200gr bullet in the 40S&W is to seat the bullet to max COAL", 1.135".

If that max COAL" plunks cleanly in your barrel, & it feeds properly from your magazine, you could experiment with seating the bullet out a little longer to maximize powder capacity.

AA#7 is a little finer powder than LongShot but being slower you'll need more grains so it might be a trade-off but it might pay-off because even in this cartridge the slower powder will give higher velocity if you have the case room for it.

If someone can tell me what the exact length (BOAL") of that 200gr bullet is I have a program that can calculate the volume available at a given COAL" & how much of a specific powder will fit in that space.

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[STORMINORMAN]

I should (have?) note(d) that BOTH the Hodgdons and Nosler's load data were @ 1.125" and NOT @ the 1.135" SAMMI max as referenced by BLUEDOT37 above... Sorry.

The good news: even more room to work with, presuming they "plink" at that OAL (which they normally should).

Cheers!

 

[Transamconvert]

Most of my 3rd generation S&W will plunk, feed and run at 1.16 depending on the bullet profile, except for one 4006. 2011 guys are loading out to 1.18 regularly.

 

[rosewood]

If someone can tell me what the exact length (BOAL") of that 200gr bullet is I have a program that can calculate the volume available at a given COAL" & how much of a specific powder will fit in that space.

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0.675" for the 200gr ASP. You will need to know the specific brand of brass too right?

Rosewood

 

[Daddy]

Thanks guys! This is helpful information. The pistol is a S&W M&P 1.0 with 4.25" barrel. I'm using PMC brass right now because I have several thousand pcs. When I get home this evening I'll experiment with coal and see how much room I have to work with before I hit the lands. My current load development has been at 1.125 coal. If I have more room in the mag and I can get away with running them a little longer, that will probably get me where I want to be safely.

 

[Paul105]

Some 40 S&W ramblings:

Probably not much help because of availability, but Vihtavori shows a couple of powders that should get 1,000+ fps with 200gr bullets in 40 S&W.
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I know N105 has been discontinued (grabbed some a couple of yrs ago when I found it in stock). Have actually loaded a couple of rounds with starting loads using Montana Bullet Works 200gr WFN. Only loaded a couple to chrono (which didn't work that day).

No signs of over pressure. Can't remember if it was in the M2.0 MP40 or a glock 22 with KKM bbl. Got sidetracked and haven't done anything since.

Have chronoed the Double Tap 200gr load (rated at 1,000 fps) in a 3.5" Kahr CW40 - five shots at 5 long steps from muzzle and 65 def f -- 925 fps avg 19 fps ES.

Lost River Ammunition company offers a 170gr SWC at 1,200 fps if you can live without the possiblity of expansion (don't know if the ref Nosler JHP will expand at 40 velo).

I have used a fair amount of Hodgdon Longshot in the 10mm, 45 ACP and 460 Rowland with very favorable results. If I didn't have the N105 I'd start with longshot.

Caution. Be real careful, the 40 S&W has a tendency to spike pressures quickly and fully supported chambers are highly recommended. If you start getting case bulging (glock smiles) stop and re evaluate.

FWIW,

Paul

 

[hardluk1]

Pick a better cartridge for deer hunting unless your capable of limiting your shots as the 40sw even at BB or underwood velocites in still low on the power factor .

No just hit meat shots, as tracking a wound deer is hard on you and bad on meat and only shows a hunter lack of patience and skill . A 40sw would be a good back up or if your up a tree 20 feet or so and a deer is standing under you .

Typical solid bullets in the 18bn range will punch a hole in meat so a double shoulder hit or head shot is needed . HP needs velocity to work and a 200gr is slow at best .

I have 45 years of handgun hunting but with 8"revolver and 357mag ammo made 740ft lbs energy . and some with a DW 9" 44mag and loaded for . I have killed to deer with a 40sw but with underwoods 1300fps +ammo 155gr gold dot bullet they use to load but the deer were standing only 19 or 20 feet below me and were killed for camp meat with heart and lung damage from good expansion and both passed thru 16" of tissue on both . One fired from a from an early m&p 4.25 40sw and one with a kahr TP40 4" barrel and both did there job well . One deer fall were it stood the other ran about 60 feet makes part of a circle back where it stopped and went to the to the ground and passed away. Both expired before I could get down out of the tree and no tracking needed . Both shots were also under ideal conditions with doe deer and I had a 308 bolt rifle with me both time . I also had 45 years handgun hunting experience behind me and I tend to let a lot of deer and hogs work on when I do not have an ideal shot . . Hope you have better handgun options .

If you have a 6" plus barrel 357mag federal has a hammer down ammo in 170gr sp that looks to be old school style ammo and should be a good choice till you figure out your own load .

OH I've rolled my own 40sw since '91 and sneaking up on hot 40sw loads can be interesting . Long shot works well and can give you what you want but sneak up on max loads . My best 40sw chamber were in a kahr tp40 . Tight chamber and highest velocity .

 

[Daddy]

Coal 1.160

As mentioned, the key to maximizing a 200gr bullet in the 40S&W is to seat the bullet to max COAL", 1.135".

If that max COAL" plunks cleanly in your barrel, & it feeds properly from your magazine, you could experiment with seating the bullet out a little longer to maximize powder capacity.

AA#7 is a little finer powder than LongShot but being slower you'll need more grains so it might be a trade-off but it might pay-off because even in this cartridge the slower powder will give higher velocity if you have the case room for it.

If someone can tell me what the exact length (BOAL") of that 200gr bullet is I have a program that can calculate the volume available at a given COAL" & how much of a specific powder will fit in that space.


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I have done some testing. And I can load to 1.160 coal and still have plenty of freebore before contact with the lands. And that's about the max that will cycle smoothly in my magazines. At 1.170 they were still dragging in the mag slightly. So I pushed it on back to 1.160 and they cycle flawless by hand.
The over all length of that 200gr nosler i am measuring at .675.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Different firearms (and basic designs, apparently?) can accommodate different and significantly longer OALs...

Remember: the OP's "goal" only requires less than an additional 50 fps.

More case capacity certainly allows for more powder, but... Moving to 1.160" would require even MORE powder to attain his previous achieved velocity. I think he only needs to add a series of +0.10gr increments until he achieves his perceived fps goal...?

How it works in the field is beyond my experience. I hope for success!

Cheers!

 

[BLUEDOT37]

So I pushed it on back to 1.160 and they cycle flawless by hand.
The over all length of that 200gr nosler i am measuring at .675.

With a max COAL" of 1.135" that 200gr bullet would have ~.385" seating depth (SgD) & would use ~61% of available case volume (assuming the case holds 20.0gr/water, which is about avg from the brands I've checked though I haven't checked PMC).

QuickLoad (QL) estimates that with these settings 6.0gr/LongShot (L-S) would be ~30Kpsi @ 942mv from a 4.25" bbl.

Upping the charge to 6.2gr would be QL ~33Kpsi @ 970mv.
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Increasing the COAL" to 1.155" would change the SgD to ~.365", giving you ~3.2% more case capacity, & 6.2gr/L-S would be QL ~29Kpsi @ 947mv.

Upping the charge to 6.6gr/L-S would be QL ~34Kpsi @ 1001mv.

SAAMI max is 35Kpsi.

Take QL calcuations with a grain of salt, use at you own risk & only in a pistol in good quality working order... vada vada vada.

.

PS: if you do load some of the 40S&Ws over 1.135" COAL make sure they don't get fired in a pistol barrel with little to no leade/freebore or you'll have an excessive pressure situation you don't want.

My CS40 had zero leade/freebore until I reamed its chamber with my Manson throater & now it has plenty to play with.

My 4013s were fine from the factory.

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