41 feeding failure.

[hmeier4799]

My 41 with Volquartsen extractor and Wolf 7 pound spring had been functioning satisfactorily with CCI SV ammo.
Then feeding failures started. The bolt is not pushing the cartridge off of the magazine even though the bolt seems to be sufficiently retracting. I checked the magazine for full insertion.
What could cause this? Maybe drop down to a 6 1/2 pound sprind?
I tried a magazine with a steel follower and had only one failure in 20 shots.

 

[gmborkovic]

No answer but stay here and we will solve the problem. Start cheap and simple. A good clean, incl the mag. CCI SV is the ammo to stick with.
Then move on to a different mag. Just do not start polishing or stoning any parts. Do you still have the orig. ext. and spring? Just start simple and be patient. I shoot a mod-46 with all orig. parts and just clean with no problems.

 

[Dave Lively]

Without a high speed camera it is hard to know if the slide is retracting enough to chamber the next round. The slide ejecting the empty and then running over a round instead of chambering is by far the most common failure when I try to use CCI standard velocity ammo. The failure rate in my 41 is about 3% to 5% with CCI standard velocity.

The internet will tell you that CCI standard velocity is the ammo for a S&W 41. Are you going to believe your own eyes or the internet?

Some 41s do not like CCI standard velocity ammo. Mine certainly doesn't and I don't think it ever will. I installed the same extractor you are using, thoroughly cleaned it, tried light lube, lots of lube, etc. and nothing worked. Eventually I gave up and started using high velocity ammo which transformed my 41 from a finicky and frustrating gun to shoot into one that is as reliable as any other good 22. I am currently shooting CCI 40 grain Blazer through it and while I suspect it would be less accurate than standard velocity if I took the time to carefully shoot it off a bench offhand my 41 is still the most accurate 22 I own. And Blazer is not high grade ammo, it could probably produce better accuracy with other ammo.

If you are worried about high velocity ammo damaging the gun ask yourself if standard velocity ammo with a 6.5 pound spring will batter the gun less than high velocity ammo with the factory spring. I don't think it will.

If you do want to keep using CCI standard velocity keep the gun clean and try lighter springs.

 

[Mike0251]

Both mine like HV as well but will also cycle SV but not as sharp and clean as HV. I don't believe the internet either Dave. The gun is steel and built well. IMHO the SV myth surrounds the fact the gun was made for competition in which case HV is not the optimal choice because of recoil and and drifting off target slightly during said competition. The guns like the cheap HV as well. Stock extractors still installed in mine.

 

[BE Mike]

I'm guessing with the feeding issue that you have, that the recoil spring is not too heavy and may in fact be too light. The first thing to check is the chamber. Although it may look clean, it actually could have deposits that need cleaning. I use a .25 caliber rifle bore brush, bent at 90 degrees to clean a .22 chamber. I don't use a bore brush on the rifling, just the chamber. Of course, the rest of the pistol needs a deep cleaning to make sure that the slide is not dragging. Another thing to look for which people often deny (me included, at first) is that a finger or thumb is dragging slightly on the slide when firing, which will cause a similar feeding issue.

 

[hmeier4799]

Before going any further, I examined the front face of the bolt.
The flat surface for feeding the cartridge has a bevel on the bottom edge such that only a minimal amount of the bolt face can contact the cartridge. Is that normal? check your gun.

 

[armorer951]

The bottom of the bolt is slightly rounded, and crowned, yes.

If the next round in the magazine is not feeding you can check the movement rearward of the slide by making note of whether or not it locks back (open) on the last round out of the mag. If it does, then the problem is not likely an overpowered recoil spring.

Magazines can be the source of many of the problems with feeding, etc. Make sure you check them and give them a thorough cleaning. If it's an older example, new mag springs may be in order.

No problem using high velocity ammo, but if you decide to do this, make sure you are using a full length , OEM recoil spring.

Another rather obscure issue is the orientation of the recoil spring. Make sure if you are using an altered, cut or a spring with an "open" end (coil is not closed) that the open end goes to the back of the guide rod and into the cavity in the frame. (not in front)

You might also try the "search" function at the top of the forum header. There are A LOT of posts concerning troubleshooting the model 41.

 

[hmeier4799]

The bolt does lock back after the last shot.
I installed the original Factory spring and will be testing with Federal higher velocity Target Grade Ammo.
Will test the CCI SV in my Ruger Mark 111 which has always been very reliable.
Although probably not for a few days.

 

[jag22]

To me CCI SV seems to be right on the edge. I have one brick that does fine, another not so much. It always functions on HV ammo. If you have a different batch of the SV see what happens. Not all of the bad brick fails but I'm just using it in different guns.

 

[chief38]

My 41 with Volquartsen extractor and Wolf 7 pound spring had been functioning satisfactorily with CCI SV ammo.
Then feeding failures started. The bolt is not pushing the cartridge off of the magazine even though the bolt seems to be sufficiently retracting. I checked the magazine for full insertion.
What could cause this? Maybe drop down to a 6 1/2 pound sprind?
I tried a magazine with a steel follower and had only one failure in 20 shots.

The M41 can be a quite finicky target pistol. I find the combo of the Factory 7.5 lb. recoil spring and 40 grain CCI standard velocity ammo work great out of the original steel follower magazines. The vintage magazines with the black plastic follower still work decently, however the magazines manufactured over the last 1/2 dozen years or so are horrible!! I have not encountered one yet that works properly in an older M41 and all I had went back to S&W for a refund! Years ago I bought a bunch of the original steel follower style on eBay, (paid a lot for them) but feeding issues are a thing if the past! The Volquartsen extractor is usually a huge improvement and is my first suggestion for extraction issues.

I’d not shoot high velocity with a lighter than Factory spring - stronger springs are also available. NOTE: Replacement recoil springs……. closed end of spring ALWAYS faces muzzle. Open end faces rearward! S&W original Factory 7.5 lb. springs come finished on both ends as they really should.

 

[AveragEd]

My new Model 41 would not eject empty cases so new rounds could not be chambered. My gunsmith felt the slide required too much effort to be cycled by hand so he checked the rails and found two with high spots. Correcting that fixed the gun.

And for what it's worth, CCI SV is what S&W uses to test-fire its 22LR guns. It's really decent ammo - according to a Vista Outdoors (CCI's parent company) engineer, the only difference between it and their Green Tag target ammo is the machines on which they are loaded.

Ed

 

[Kp321]

In my experience CCI SV is a little weak for reliable operation in cooler weather. Other brands of SV are enough hotter to be reliable in all conditions. Eley and SK run great in my 41’s with factory springs and extractors.

 

[chief38]

In my experience CCI SV is a little weak for reliable operation in cooler weather. Other brands of SV are enough hotter to be reliable in all conditions. Eley and SK run great in my 41’s with factory springs and extractors.

Hi-Vel. ammo might improve reliability (no argument there) however you will also give up accuracy (they are not as accurate as the Std. Vel.) and the gun will be beat up a bit faster. Since the M41 IS a target pistol, I would think accuracy would be important. That said, if HV ammo is what you intend to use, you might try a spring with another 1/2 pound rating. At least see if that works. Install aftermarket (Wolff) springs with open end REARWARDS!

 

[BE Mike]

I saw on another forum where there was a similar problem, it was rectified by polishing the insides of the lips of the magazine(s).

 

[gmborkovic]

BE Mike, thats a new one. Im going to look tomorrow, and see how to polish the inside of the lips of the mag. I guess slippery inner lips are better
than rough inner lips on your mags. Im game to try that remedy.

 

[chief38]

While there could be a bur, nick or high spot - proceed with caution. Magazine lips are somewhat finicky. If there is some sort of bur or defect, proceed slowly and test often. You don't want to alter the lips anymore than necessary. If possible, do this where there you can shoot it while working on it - don't go too far as metal can't be put back.

 

[BE Mike]

While there could be a bur, nick or high spot - proceed with caution. Magazine lips are somewhat finicky. If there is some sort of bur or defect, proceed slowly and test often. You don't want to alter the lips anymore than necessary. If possible, do this where there you can shoot it while working on it - don't go too far as metal can't be put back.

Good advice. I also like working on the most inexpensive part, in this case, the magazine vs. pistol.