.44 HE 2nd model

[Summersteel]

I recently acquired this revolver, and found it interesting for a few reasons. First, it has the uncommon 5" barrel. Second, it has a very early serial number, according the the S&W Std Catalog. It's also interesting to me that it has a large S&W logo on the right side, not the small one on the left side.
I also have recently found a 3rd model 44 HE, likely W&K with a 5" barrel, so I thought they would pair well together.
Not much finish left on this gun, but no rust or pits in the metal—just a lot of holster wear. Barrel is clean, and it locks up tight.
I found a nice Brauer Bros holster from that era, and they go well together, I think.
I would be interested in any opinions on how old y'all might think this gun is.
Thanks.

 

[Summersteel]

A couple more pics.

 

[Ruger 13]

Very nice!

 

[22hipower]

Nice, doubtlessly would have some great stories if it could talk. Do the stocks number to the gun? I have a later one (1923ish) with the small left side logo you mention and also a good bit of wear but still mechanically sound. Also have the period correct no medallion stocks but can't seem to find a picture of those at the moment.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Wiregrassguy]

I would be interested in any opinions on how old y'all might think this gun is.

The SCSW says 1914. That matches the grip design. Do they number to the gun? They'll be marked in pencil and may be hard to read. The serial number is quite low. It appears to fall in the 144XX range the SCSW attributes to a group of 4" 2nd Models. Nice acquisition!

 

[Summersteel]

Nice, doubtlessly would have some great stories if it could talk. Do the stocks number to the gun? I have a later one (1923ish) with the small left side logo you mention and also a good bit of wear but still mechanically sound. Also have the period correct no medallion stocks but can't seem to find a picture of those at the moment.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

No numbers on back of stocks. Numbers on face of cylinder, butt stock, barrel and ejector star match.
I'm going to try to get history on this one from previous owner, if I can track him down.

 

[SS336]

Can't add much to what has been said, but I sure do like that revolver.
Does it have the cylinder hold open device in the yoke?
I am amazed at the craftsmanship of the revolvers from this early time period.

 

[Summersteel]

Can't add much to what has been said, but I sure do like that revolver.
Does it have the cylinder hold open device in the yoke?
I am amazed at the craftsmanship of the revolvers from this early time period.

What's a hold open device?

 

[Wiregrassguy]

What's a hold open device?

I scrounged through my pictures to see if I could find a picture of one, but I apparently never took one. Either Hondo44 or glowe has posted pictures of the cylinder hold-open detent. It is inside the yoke arm and is composed of a spring and pin, similar to the design of the cylinder stop spring and pin. The pin engages a machined depression on the frame when the cylinder is open. This prevents the cylinder from closing as it is reloaded. The cylinder detent is found mostly on pre-WWII N frames, but I believe some K frames had it as well. Many are missing as the spring and pin can get launched when the yoke/cylinder assembly is removed for cleaning.


Edit: It was Hondo44. Here is a link to a picture of the detent.


http://smith-wessonforum.com/139159945-post5.html

 

[SS336]

My 1915 M&P, a K-frame, has one. Always thought that was a very cool feature.
Interesting that all pre-war N-frames have them. When did they disappear from K-frames?

 

[Summersteel]

Apparently so! I didn't notice this when I cleaned it up yesterday.
Thanks for asking about it!

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Apparently so! I didn't notice this when I cleaned it up yesterday.
Thanks for asking about it!

Lucky man! It must be stuck...jes sayin' . You might want to remove the pin and spring, clean out the hole and lightly lube them. They'll reliably launch the next time.

 

[handejector]

NEAT gun!
You have a VERY early 44-2nd Model. It was almost certainly shipped in late 1916.
2nd Model N frames did not exist till 1915. The 2nd Model was introduced into 455 production for the Brits in January, 1915. Most or all of 1915 was occupied with 455 production for the Brits fighting in the trenches in France. I have never seen a 44-2nd that shipped in 1915.
Most of 1916 was also occupied with 455 production for the Brits, finishing up in Sept.

Late 1916 is the earliest date I have ever seen for a 44-2nd.
The lowest known number for a 44-2nd is in the 145XX range.



Years ago, I did own 14630, which shipped Nov 25, 1916 >

Your gun may have shipped before or after 14630, but it probably shipped in late 1916 or maybe early 1917.
They did not ship in serial number order.
For example:
44-2nd #15268 shipped Nov 20, 1917
44-2nd #15351 shipped July, 1917
44-2nd #15382 shipped Sept 12, 1917

 

[Kinman]

EEEWWWWW, a five inch 2nd Model...I like it. Congrats you got yourself a winner for sure, at least in my book. I honestly prefer the lines of a 2nd model over all the rest when it comes to .44's, of course the same holds true for the Model of 1917, sure the Models of 1950 and 1955 will probably outshoot it, aesthetically the Model of 1917 has the nod, particularly in Commercial grade.

 

[Summersteel]

Just found out from Roy that this one shipped December 1916.

 

[bruce5781]

Congratulations on a great piece. Mine is a later gun built on a leftover 1917 frame.

Sent from my SM-S127DL using Tapatalk

 

[iby]

Nice.
Handejector's gun has the same logo on the right side

 

[Hondo44]

My 1915 M&P, a K-frame, has one. Always thought that was a very cool feature.
Interesting that all pre-war N-frames have them. When did they disappear from K-frames?

CYL/YOKE DETENT HOLD OPEN DEVICE: (More detent photos in this thread http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/253208-internal-crane-lock.html#post136573981


A classic old feature to keep the cyl open when loading/unloading and prevent it from slamming closed if the gun is tipped to the right slightly and scratching the recoil shield with the extractor star.

The cylinder hold open device or detent was introduced on the very 1st Hand Ejector, the 'I' frame ".32 HE Model 1896, 1st Model" thru the ".32 HE Model of 1903 – 2nd Model", thru ~1904.

It was used and continued in pre WWI K frames beginning on the "38 M&P Model of 1899" thru at least the "38 M&P Model of 1902 – 1st Change" thru at least 1911. Still seen in 1917.

And also in the N frames beginning with the 1908 44 Triple Lock.

By the Mar 10, 1919 change order: all cyl hold open detents in all frame sizes had been ordered eliminated. However, likely due to many N frame parts/yokes/frames still being used from inventory accommodated the continued installation of the device following production for the .44 Triple Lock, high volume production for the .455 British Svc Revolver and Model 1917, which were all drilled for the device, and usually had the device installed except for later 1917s reportedly. The device is still found in most Pre WWII N frames, except as noted for the 1917s, and even a few Post War Transitional N frames. K frames are also found with the device after the deletion change order would indicate. I frames had the device eliminated as early as the .32 HE Model of 1903 2nd Model - 1st Change in 1904.

It's another example of "Old World panache" Smith was known for that we won't ever see again. But very easy to add to any later model Hand Ejector.

The best reason for/advantage of the cy hold open feature:

It prevents damage to the back side of the recoil shield that can be done when the cyl falls closed if extractor star is extended in the process of removing cases!