44 mag conundrum

[Collo Rosso]

I know you guys hold back on your opinions, but I'd like to hear what some here think with more experience than me...
I bought a Marlin lever gun in 44 mag and I probably don't have to say it's a fun shooter. I've been shooting a 240 LSWC with 19.5 grains of #9. This is close to the 20.2 grain max and Accurate's load book shows about 1400fps from a 8" barrel. At 25 yards I shot clover leafs from a bench rest. At 50 yards it opened up to 2" but most likely more me than the gun. At 100 yards I can't get it on the paper! What happened at 100 yards? This is my first time with buckhorn sights and I'm not thrilled with them. I do have a rear peep coming, but still! Am I pushing lead to fast? Is 100 yards to much for a SWC bullet? Maybe I should try a box of factory ammo and see what happens? What would you guys do to logically work this out?

 

[2hawk]

Collo, your experience mirrors mine, so I am not going to be any help. (although, I could hit the paper at 100)

I have put the AO rail and sight on my 1894, but I haven't mounted a scope yet to see what happens at 100. I suspect it will be a lot better than what I can do with either the peeps or buckhorns... I would like to see what the more sage members have to say.

 

[Collo Rosso]

Collo, your experience mirrors mine, so I am not going to be any help. (although, I could hit the paper at 100)

Always nice to know your not alone.

 

[fredj338]

It's you. Buckthorns take a Little getting used to if you shoot peep or partridge.

 

[ironhead7544]

Try a 240 gr jacketed with the recommended load.

I would expect 3 to 4 inch groups with a scope. The stock iron sights look a bit big at 100 yards. Hard to index properly. A rear peep sight and a thinner Patridge front blade will help. Check out the Skinner set of sights.

 

[arjay]

Used to be pretty good with my 94 30 years ago.Tried my sons new Henry the other day and its a bear trying to see that front sight...

 

[Collo Rosso]

Check out the Skinner set of sights.

I have a Skinner lo-pro on order.

 

[mrrick]

Check if it has traditional "Ballard" rifling, or polygonal rifling like a Glock.

Lead bullets supposedly don't work well in polygonal rifled barrels.

Just a thought.

 

[Collo Rosso]

Used to be pretty good with my 94 30 years ago.Tried my sons new Henry the other day and its a bear trying to see that front sight...

It's not the front sight, it's the rear buckhorn. I have no problem focusing on the front but when I do I can't tell were that little notch is in the rear. I have peeps on my AR and M1a. I'm not bad with either one of them so ordered the skinner. I was thinking maybe changing bullet to a RN. I have a recollection of reading about SWC's not flying straight after a distance. Am I wrong?

 

[ironhead7544]

Check if it has traditional "Ballard" rifling, or polygonal rifling like a Glock.

Lead bullets supposedly don't work well in polygonal rifled barrels.

Just a thought.

+1 on this. Also rifles often have a .432 size barrel. You might have to try some larger bullets if you want to use cast. Slug you barrel to find out. I like the special slugs from Lead Bullet Technologies. No hammer required.

 

[Neumann]

Some Marlin .44 rifles are known to have an oversized groove diameter, which will cause the bullet to tumble or yaw. You may need a lead bullet sized to 0.431" or 0.432" to seal properly. (q.v. Hickok45 on this subject). Jacketed bullets have more friction, and upset for a good seal as small as 0.429". It's not necessarily a microgroove v Ballard thing.

Marlins also have a 38" twist, which will barely stabilize a 300 gr bullet, much less anything heavier. A light load may have some stability issues at longer range as well, due to low velocity.

 

[shocker]

I have the same rifle and my usual load is nearly identical to yours, except I use a truncated cone bullet instead of a SWC.
I haven't finished my testing, but I think the accuracy of pistol caliber carbines could be summarized as 1 minute of a deer at 100 yds. Actually I can get consecutive shots close, but the barrel is thin walled so the barrel moves a lot as it's temperature changes.

Suggest trying a box of factory ammo, or handloading the Hornady 240 gr XTP. You'll have to wait a while between shots to allow the heat to dissipate.

Everybody that slugs a Marlin barrel seems to come out at 432, including me. I've shot 430 and 432 cast and the 432 groups a little better. There wasn't any leading in either case. Penn Bullet alloy seems to hold up just fine with velocities in the 1600 fps range.

 

[10mm_Shooter]

My Henry .44 was all over the place and leading in the first 1.5 inches of of barrel in front of the chamber, until I went to .432 sized cast bullets, I use a custom mold from Accurate Mold its a 240gr LRN-FP. Now no more leading and shoots great now. Just a note one of my loads is 16.2 grains of AA#9 behind my 240gr LRn-FP that run 1440 fps out of my Henry verified across my chrono on many occasions. If you running 19.5 grains of AA#9..a 240 gr bullet is zooming, Accurate ARms used a 8.75 test barrel and shows 20.5 grs running 1450 fps out of it...... our rifle barrels are twice the length and some. your load is likely close to 1600 fps with 19.5 grs out of a 20 inch barrell

 

[aurora40]

Some Marlin .44 rifles are known to have an oversized groove diameter, which will cause the bullet to tumble or yaw. You may need a lead bullet sized to 0.431" or 0.432" to seal properly. (q.v. Hickok45 on this subject). Jacketed bullets have more friction, and upset for a good seal as small as 0.429". It's not necessarily a microgroove v Ballard thing.

Marlins also have a 38" twist, which will barely stabilize a 300 gr bullet, much less anything heavier. A light load may have some stability issues at longer range as well, due to low velocity.

Just fyi, the SAAMI spec is actually different for the bore of a 44 rifle vs pistol. It may not be that they are oversize.

 

[Collo Rosso]

Thanks! With your suggestions I did some research and it didn't take long to find out Marlins, Henrys and Ruger rifles seem to slug to .432. My 240gr. LSWC's are .430. I can say they're not tumbling as when I do hit paper it's a perfect hole!
My Marlin (probably like yours) is ballard rifling, 6 groves, 1:38 twist. I guess I'll have to spend some money as I don't cast and cheap bulk bullets are all .430 sized.
May I ask with 1:38 what weight bullet would you guys recommend? From what I've read it seems to favor lighter bullets.

 

[rwsmith]

Just a side note.....

Pistol bullets are not as aerodynamic as rifle bullets and no matter how fast you start them, they slow down quickly.

 

[Engineer1911]

Marlin solution!

I know you guys hold back on your opinions, but I'd like to hear what some here think with more experience than me........

.... At 25 yards I shot clover leafs from a bench rest. At 50 yards it opened up to 2" but most likely more me than the gun. At 100 yards I can't get it on the paper! What happened at 100 yards? This is my first time with buckhorn sights and I'm not thrilled with them. ..............

Your Marlin 44 mag shoots as great as mine did. My hundred yard target was 4 FEET square, but my Marlin shot 60" patterns . If there were any bullet holes, the holes were round. My Ruger Super Black Hawk with the same ammo could shoot 12" groups at 100 yards on that 4 foot square target.

I traded that Marlin for a Remington XP-100 in 223 Rem. A five shot group shrank to 1/2" at 100 yards with a 4X Leupold scope.

 

[shocker]

May I ask with 1:38 what weight bullet would you guys recommend? From what I've read it seems to favor lighter bullets.

The old normal bullet weight range of 240-270 gr should be fine. 38 twist is marginal at 300 gr and too slow heavier than that. Personally, if I wanted to hurl 300+ gr pills I would be getting a 444 (which I have on order at the LGS). Just need Marlin to make some!

 

[m657]

re: "Tried my sons new Henry the other day and its a bear trying to see that front sight..."...wa....wait.....You say there's a "front sight"??? When did that option appear???

re: hitting paper?

I had a 45-70 Marlin that absolutely did NOT like lead anything. At 50 yards I repeatedly got key holing (IF it hit the target at all) with any of a half-dozen recipes & boolit weights.

Switched to FMJ style and factory loads, 2" at 50 yards all day long.

Yes, it was their much touted 'micro'whatever they called it. <grumblegrumble>

Buckhorn sights do require some practice as well.

Good luck.

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

I would get a good reloading manual that has cast bullet info for rifle loads and follow those instructions. The Lyman Cast Bullet handbook is a good one.