.44 Spl. vs .44Mag. vs .45LC ???

[one eye joe]

I have 4" Mountain Guns chambered in .44 Mag. and .45LC. As a result, I have the choice of carrying either .44 Spl., .44 Mag. or .45 LC ammo in essentially the same weapon. I have read several posts that extoll the virtues of the .45LC. I do not reload. Using factory ammo of the same bullet weight, how do the 3 stack up against each other with regard to muzzle velocity, terminal velocity @100yds, bullet drop@ 100yds, felt recoil in the same weight gun, ease of recovery for a 2nd shot (often touted as an advantage of .45LC) I feel that a "well placed" hardcast bullet of around 250gr. or so in either of these 3 calibers will knock down anything walking in North America. Am I wrong about this ? Is there any overall advantage to any of these factory loads ? Thanks for your help...........one eye joe

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

The biggest advantages of the .45 Colt are that it will drive the same weight bullet at the same speed as a .44 mag, but do it at less chamber pressure. The other being that with any bullet, and especially a cast SWC, it will make a larger permanent wound channel, all else being equal, ie; bullet weight, design etc. It does offer less felt recoil with equal loads due to the lower chamber pressures. Your 625 will take some faily stout loads.

For more on that subject read this-

http://handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=12

 

[handgunner356]

Although there are special loads for 45 Colt that push them up quite a bit, the factory loads for .44 Special and .45 Colt are less then half the the energy of .44 Magnum. Corbon offers some 45 Colt loads that run 850#+ ME compared to about 350# ME of the standard 45 Colt. If you don't reload it's a option but still doesn't match the power or varity available in .44 mag.

 

[smith17]

Gun 4 Fun:
Where did you get your info to support your statement that you can drive a .45 Colt the same velocity as a .44 Magnum? None of my reloading manuals cover those velocities and I couldn't find it in the article you attached.
Ed

 

[Andy Taylor]

For MOST applications either the .44 Special or .45 Colt are better options, for two reasons:
1. .44 Magnum will be harder to recover a sight picture for follow up shots, especially in a lightweight gun like the Mountain Gun.
2. .44 Magnum is much more likely to over-penitrate and hurt an inocent bystander than either of the other two rounds.
I will say that if four legged predators are a serious concern, and you are in a low population area, such as the wilderness, then a .44 Magnum may be the ticket.
I practice what I preach. I carry a .45 Colt every day, and a .44 Special is next to my bed. My .44 magnums go to the range occasionally, or on a camping/hiking trip.

 

[flop-shank]

Originally posted by Lucky Derby:
For MOST applications either the .44 Special or .45 Colt are better options, for two reasons:
1. .44 Magnum will be harder to recover a sight picture for follow up shots, especially in a lightweight gun like the Mountain Gun.
2. .44 Magnum is much more likely to over-penitrate and hurt an inocent bystander than either of the other two rounds.

Overpenetration is no more an issue with the .44 magnum than any other cartridge. Proper ammo selection is the key. The only factory load I have tested that wouldn't overpenetrate when fire into four layer denim/bare Perma-Gel is the Federal 180 gr. JHP. The 165 gr. JHP handload I carry also won't overpenetrate. There may be others. The Winchester silvertip is marginal. I carry a 629 for defense and it is doable for those physically capable and dedicated to mastering it's vigorous tendencies. I agree that using full power ammo in something as light as a mountain gun is something few could reasonably control. I certainly couldn't. I created my entire system from the ground up (it's still a work in progress) and it includes a full underlug barrel and mag-na-porting. I agree that the .45 Colt and .44 spl. (actually I like the .357 much more than the .44 spl.) are better choices for most shooters, but did want to point out that the full power .44 magnum is doable and there are a few of us that are carrying that much heat.

Smith17, IIRC there are "Ruger only .45 Colt handloads that surpass the .44 magnum. I don't know where to find said data, buit I'm sure someone has a line on it. The .45 Colt certainly has the case capacity to beat out the .44 magnum as long as the gun that surrounds it has the ability to handle the pressure.

 

[Snowman366]

Originally posted by smith17:
Gun 4 Fun:
Where did you get your info to support your statement that you can drive a .45 Colt the same velocity as a .44 Magnum?

Same thing...still waiting to hear an answer.

 

[max]

The 45 Colt was the basis for the 454 Casull. The 45 can be driven faster than the 44 with less pressure. I can't quote exactly, but have read about it at length. John Linebaugh is one of the best sources

 

[jp zanoya]

What are your anticipated targets?
If they are two legged, .44special Gold Dots should handle just about anything, with minimal recoil and blast.
If you are encountering the four legged variety out in the wild, go with magnum loads.

 

[smith17]

max:
I agree with your first sentence; it is like saying the 44 mag was based on the 44 special. It's just a little longer.

The Casull operates with pressures above 40,000 and generally above 50,000. The 45 Colt is generally below 20,000.


My question is: In trying to replicate a 44 Magnum velocity of 1300 fps out of a 45 Colt, acknowledging that a 454 Casull would generate in excess of 35,000 psi moving a 240 grain that fast (1300 fps), how can the pressures of a smaller cased 45 Colt generate the same velocities at lower pressures and survive(per Guns 4 Fun)? I am not trying to cause trouble here, just learn from you all in the reloading section. Perhaps what I think is logical does not apply to the 45 Colt.
Ed

ps- jp, I agree with your assessment.

 

[ArgMauser]

As jp zanoya asked "what are your targets?"
Assuming a 4-legged target, personally I would choose a heavily loaded .45 Colt, a heavily .44 Mag, or a really heavily loaded .44 Spl, in that order--and not in a S&W Mountain Gun, but something more like a Ruger Blackhawk or Redhawk.
Assuming a 2-legged target, the Mountain Gun would be fine and I'd probably choose a medium speed .44 Magnum load.
BTW, Hodgdon 26 Ed. shows the .45 Colt heavy load with a 300 gr. bullet at a pressure of 30,000 CUP achieving a velocity of 1330 fps from a 7-inch bbl, while the .44 Mag heavy load with a 300 gr bullet at an unknown pressure achieves a velocity of 1359 fps from a 14-inch TC barrel.
FWIW, a normal .44 Mag load with a 300 gr bullet at a pressure of 35,400 CUP achieves a velocity of 1290 fps from a 7-inch bbl. according to the same Hodgdon manual.

 

[flop-shank]

Modern Reloading Second Edition by Richard Lee has a buttload of "Ruger and T/C only" data in it's own section.

 

[gregintenn]

Since you don't reload, you should probably check the prices and availability of ammo for each caliber. That would probably help you form an opinion. I wouldn't give a nickel's difference between the two, but I DO reload.

 

[one eye joe]

Hey Guys--Thank you all soo much for your input. I learned a lot from each of you. I'm thinking that I'm really handicapped by not re-loading, but I'm too old to start that now. I think I'll be fine with shooting Gold Dots or Silvertips against 2 legged critters in either .44 SPL or .45 Colt--probably with no appreciable difference in the end result. I'll pick up some heavy Cor-bons or Garrets in .44 Mag for serious encounters of the 4 legged variety. So thanks again.........one eye joe

 

[animalmother]

I have 44 Mags and no 45 LCs, so I've gone the 44 route. No need to an extra caliber to my lineup.

 

[OKFC05]

I feel that a "well placed" hardcast bullet of around 250gr. or so in either of these 3 calibers will knock down anything walking in North America. Am I wrong about this ?

Having seen the 6 44 mag bullets that did not make it into the chest cavity of a large Alaska Brown Bear (a couple of 375 rifle slugs did), I would consider all three calibers to be marginal for the big bears. No thanks.

 

[flop-shank]

I'm always cognizant of the fact that there are Michael Platts out there. If I ever have the misfortune of having to shoot it out with one, I want ever advantage I can get. We each have to decide how powerful our most advantageous load is.

Originally posted by one eye joe:
Hey Guys--Thank you all soo much for your input. I learned a lot from each of you. I'm thinking that I'm really handicapped by not re-loading, but I'm too old to start that now.

Your most welcome and whether or not to handload is your call, Joe. I still would encourage you to buddy up and dabble in handloading with a local shooter if the opportunity is available. Handloading is extremely educational. Only you can decide at what speed, if at all, to handload. I didn't want to handload when I started, but I'm too tight to be willing to pay the price of factory ammo. I'm glad I got started. Sometimes it pays to be cheap.

 

[Mule88]

To make a long story short anything the .45 can do in the mountain gun, the .44 can do better. You can always use specials or load down to 45 colt levels, but the 45 colt cant be loaded up to 44 mag levels safely in the mountain gun. To me this is a no brainer.

 

[Tempest 455]

Not much to add other than, the 44 Mag is the most fun to shoot of all of them!

 

[David LaPell]

This is tough since I have all three (624 is essentially a MG with a square butt, and I have a 29 4-inch). If you are not reloading than I would rule out the .44 Special since most of the factory loads are a bit on the light side due to the older guns that are out there. Where as the .44 Magnum in the MG would be a bit fierce with full power loads (nice article covering that in this months Handloader recommending Heretts grips for it). I have a .45 Colt MG, and it is a very pleasant shooting gun and has plenty of power. If you were reloading I would say get the .44 Magnum because you could tailor your loads in both .44 Special and .44 Magnum, but since you're sticking to factory stuff, get the .45 Colt. Nothing beats a factory 250 grain lead round bullet moving at 800 fps.