.45 ACP Super/ .45 ACP+p

[steelholder]

I was interested in using these rounds on a 4506. Has anyone ever done any type of conversions? I heard for +p none have to be made but for super there definitely has to be certain changes, recoil spring etc. any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[jimbo-indy]

My late son did quite a bit of work with the 45 Super in a specially set up Glock 21. 45 Super is somewhat hotter than 45 ACP +P but less than 460 Roland. Generally, you need to use 45 Super brass as it is stronger. Yes, a much heavier recoil spring is required. Also, you should be sure to verify that your chamber is "fully supported". Not sure about the 4506 but I know Glocks are not such. He had to by a special barrel for his conversion.
I am looking at converting a CZ97B for Super. From what I've seen, recoil springs in the 25 lb. range are where you need to be. Finding these may be a problem. You may have to get some made and get several weights till you find the combo that works.His Glock was built as a pin gun and worked great only if fed handloads matched to his set-up.

 

[steelholder]

thanks for the advice. i found a few springs made by wolff 22 and 24lb are the strongest. there maybe some for cz also. what did you mean by "fully supported"?

 

[Blue19]

jimbo-indy:
That sounds like a very interesting project. If you do it, please share your experiences.

 

[haggis]

.45 Super brass is thicker and stronger than .45ACP in the cartridge web section. You don't need a fully supported chamber, at least in the 1911. You do need a 24-26 pound recoil spring. I would never use standard .45ACP brass for .45 Super loads even in a fully supported chamber. Much too easy to accidentally put them in an unmodified gun.


Buck

 

[pilot99]

I have a box of Triton 450 SMC and a box of 45+p both 230 Gr. The 450 is listed at 1150 fps and the +p is 960 fps. The 450 has a paper insert in it listing recoil spring for various guns. The 4506 calls for 17 to 24 spring rate, 1911 26,g21 24, g30 21 etc. Hope this helps.

 

[moxie]

Steelholder,
.45ACP+ P can be fired in most modern .45s, including the 4506, without any problem. The .45 Super is a completely different animal, way more powerful and operating at much higher pressure. Yes it requires special .45 Super brass. More importantly, the gun itself needs to be robust enough to take it. Simply installing a 25 lb. recoil spring isn't enough. If you are unsure of the meaning of the term "fully supported," you are not yet at the level of handgun knowledge to make informed decisions in this area. Suggest you hold off trying to adapt a gun to .45 Super, a potentially very dangerous project, until you become far more familiar with this area of study. Start with this website: Ace Custom 45s, Inc.

 

[steelholder]

Steelholder,
.45ACP+ P can be fired in most modern .45s, including the 4506, without any problem. The .45 Super is a completely different animal, way more powerful and operating at much higher pressure. Yes it requires special .45 Super brass. More importantly, the gun itself needs to be robust enough to take it. Simply installing a 25 lb. recoil spring isn't enough. If you are unsure of the meaning of the term "fully supported," you are not yet at the level of handgun knowledge to make informed decisions in this area. Suggest you hold off trying to adapt a gun to .45 Super, a potentially very dangerous project, until you become far more familiar with this area of study. Start with this website: Ace Custom 45s, Inc.

Thanks for the advice. This Ace place still does super conversion but not for 4506 they stopped a few years ago. this super project would have to be in the future i'm sure it won't be cheap but will turn out a nice hunting piece hopefully.

 

[steelholder]

anyone else shoot +p rounds from a 4506/4566?

 

[ajpelz]

Yes, it makes it feel like you are actually firing a 45. Shooting standard pressure out of that beast gives off the kick of about a 32ACP.

 

[ajpelz]

I have an old thread talking about the conversion... I will try to find it.

Here it is...

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/73931-45-super-conversion.html

 

[steelholder]

I have an old thread talking about the conversion... I will try to find it.

Here it is...

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/73931-45-super-conversion.html

the people at ace used to sell that Menck kit for S&W, not anymore. Were you successful in your 4566 super conversion?

 

[ajpelz]

I put springs for a 1066 in it and have shot and occasionally carry 45 Super in it. Just put the 18# recoil spring back on and I can shoot standard 45 ACP and 45 ACP+P. If I am going out in the woods where there could be black bear, I put the 22# spring in, load it with 45 Super. At $1/round for 45 Super, my 4566 stays loaded with 230 grain HST most of the time. I can get those for about .60/round, and they will suffice for any other threat I encounter

 

[oldRoger]

I have a 1911 Colt rebuilt by Clark Custom to shoot 45 Super back in the day. I shot 45 Super from it for a while then lost interest when I bought a 10mm. The CC 1911 has a ramped barrel and they recommended a 20# spring at that time. At that time I did reload for it.
Certainly the basic 3rd gen pistol is strong enough to handle the load if a 1911 will do so, Ace Hindman (assuming that he still runs Ace Custom) would probably tell you what the conversion steps would be, even if he no longer does the work.
Sprinco makes a guide rod package for S&W w/5” barrel Sprinco USA -- Recoil Reducers You would have to ask them about your 4506 and specifically about 45 Super.
I have a Sprinco in my 1911 Kimber, 10mm while it does not and in fact cannot reduce recoil it certainly does buffer the last few mm of slide travel, consequently there is no slam. At the same time it does not accelerate the slide forward much avoiding a problem with stiff springs.

One problem is that there is very little load development done now for super, the loads around are all quite old, for that reason if for no other I would stick to the +p. You can safely push a 230 gr jacketed bullet at 1050-1100 fps at pressures in the +p category which seems plenty to me.

I don’t know who if anyone sells commercial ammunition for 45 Super, but I will bet it is expensive.

 

[38-44HD45]

Much ado has been made of the Mighty .45 Super, and it is hotter than .45 ACP+P, but is nowhere near .460 Rowland territory. When Ace Hindman developed it, he made it a point to make it sound like no other mortal could possibly convert a 1911 to .45 Super and have either the gun or shooter survive the experience. That was BS, but it was good marketing to keep conversion work coming his way. I'm pretty sure that Ace died some years ago, and I believe that the company is being run by his son. An old law school classmate of mine was a friend of Mr. Hindman, and was "along for the ride" with the Super project, and I've talked to him about it quite a bit. I haven't talked to him in years, but he is listed on the Ace Custom website as the contact person for those interested in becoming ammunition dealers, so evidently, he is still involved in the business. He went to the 1995 SHOT Show with Hindman when the .45 Super debuted and I ran into him there.

In a 1911, .45 Super does NOT require a 26 lb. recoil spring nor a "fully supported" barrel. However, one should use a full-power or stronger mainspring, a flat-bottom firing pin stop and a recoil spring in the 20-22 pound range, as one would want in a 10mm Delta Elite with hot loads. Hot 10mm and .45 Super are pretty close companions in terms of recoil impulse and pressure. As others have noted, only .45 Super brass should be used, even though pressures in .45 ACP brass would actually be lower than the same load would be in the thicker Super brass, to avoid Super-level loads getting shot in something like a Star PD. That would smart some.

Now, what about the 4506? Well, it seems to me that whatever works in a 1006 in terms of springs would be just fine. You might visit with the good folks at Wolff Gunsprings and ask them, too.

 

[steelholder]

I put springs for a 1066 in it and have shot and occasionally carry 45 Super in it. Just put the 18# recoil spring back on and I can shoot standard 45 ACP and 45 ACP+P. If I am going out in the woods where there could be black bear, I put the 22# spring in, load it with 45 Super. At $1/round for 45 Super, my 4566 stays loaded with 230 grain HST most of the time. I can get those for about .60/round, and they will suffice for any other threat I encounter

Sounds like a good system you got there. Do you feel any difference when shooting the super just with the 22#?

I have a 1911 Colt rebuilt by Clark Custom to shoot 45 Super back in the day. I shot 45 Super from it for a while then lost interest when I bought a 10mm. The CC 1911 has a ramped barrel and they recommended a 20# spring at that time. At that time I did reload for it.
Certainly the basic 3rd gen pistol is strong enough to handle the load if a 1911 will do so, Ace Hindman (assuming that he still runs Ace Custom) would probably tell you what the conversion steps would be, even if he no longer does the work.
Sprinco makes a guide rod package for S&W w/5” barrel Sprinco USA -- Recoil Reducers You would have to ask them about your 4506 and specifically about 45 Super.
I have a Sprinco in my 1911 Kimber, 10mm while it does not and in fact cannot reduce recoil it certainly does buffer the last few mm of slide travel, consequently there is no slam. At the same time it does not accelerate the slide forward much avoiding a problem with stiff springs.

One problem is that there is very little load development done now for super, the loads around are all quite old, for that reason if for no other I would stick to the +p. You can safely push a 230 gr jacketed bullet at 1050-1100 fps at pressures in the +p category which seems plenty to me.

I don’t know who if anyone sells commercial ammunition for 45 Super, but I will bet it is expensive.

the guy at springco says he has the parts to beef up the 4506 for super, replacement rod (with bushing), sturdier spring etc.

+p does seem sufficient and more attainable but super conversion may prove successful for around 100$, may be a fun project and great to have a 4506 tuned and beefed for Super rounds.

 

[steelholder]

Now, what about the 4506? Well, it seems to me that whatever works in a 1006 in terms of springs would be just fine. You might visit with the good folks at Wolff Gunsprings and ask them, too.

Yes a recoil reducer, firing pin spring, extractor spring and 10% mag springs

 

[ddixie884]

Buffalo Bore loads .45 Super. I have some I bought to use in my 625's. I got them from Midway.

 

[ajpelz]

Sounds like a good system you got there. Do you feel any difference when shooting the super just with the 22#?

I like it. With the swap of a recoil spring that takes 45 seconds to change I can shoot bullets from 165 gr to 255 gr, from 750 fps to 1200-1300 with lighter bullets. That is useful versatility IMHO.

Yes, you can tell the difference when you set off a 45 super. From the muzzle blast if nothing else. Think 40S&W to 10mm.

 

[GregG]

I went on a +P binge a long time ago using my 645.

I used a 24 pound spring, Remington +P brass, Sierra 185 gr. HC bullets, and an above max load of SR-4756. It chrono'd slightly over 1200 fps. The load I started out with was a 1100 fps load from a Hornady manual that I slightly increased to reach 1200.

Shot great. A lot more recoil though. I didn't shoot but maybe 200 of those rounds and quit. I didn't know if the gun was up to it. went back to 230 gr. bullets at 950 fps.

I also shot this load in a colt Gold Cup, which has an unsupported chamber. The Remington +P brass did not bulge. I had a 24 pound spring in that gun as well. The only thing those did was loosen up the *staked in* front sight.