45ACP brass scraping off coating of lead bullet...

[Super Dave]

Hi guys,

I need some advice on how to prevent my S&S coated bullets from losing the coating in the loading process. I have a Dillon 550b press. I've tried various bell widths.

I spoke with S&S and they said that you definitely don't want to compromise the coating since leading could occur.

The two cases on the left have a pretty good bell on them...causing the bullets to often lean over once placed on the case. I don't care for a bell that wide since a lot of time is spent going back and realigning the bullet so its level.

I didn't test a whole lot of bullets but in these 4 the wider bell caused more of a coating loss.

Please advise.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[Yorkie Man]

Have the cases been cleaned with media before reloading?

I always clean with the sonic cleaner or the pins and cleaning fluid after depriming but once I need a few extra cases to round out a box so I picked out a few clean ones and resized them skipping the usual cleaning ritual. When I tried to seat the bullets there was a lot more resistance and the lead bullets shaved a small amount of lead from the edge of the base.

 

[StakeOut]

When you place bullets on top of the cases you must do your best to place it straight up and use a little pressure to secure it in the case mouth.

You can't just rest it on top of the case and hope it doesn't tilt over.

I use mostly bevel base cast lead bullets and bell the case mouths very little.

 

[Wee Hooker]

If adding more flare doesn't cure it, I'd suspect something is not aligning right in the seating die. Either because it's fouled or it's not true during seating. Try taking it apart and cleaning it. Also assure you align the bullet perfectly and then (slowly) raise the ram.

 

[mtgianni]

This used to be a non issue but when loading coated the case bell should be even on all cases. That requires that all are trimmed to the same overall length. Too short and you run out of bell, too long and it get excessive. I would suggest those cases are different than the ones you set up your dies with.

 

[TANKER]

I have found that not all coatings are equal. Try a different supplier.

 

[Super Dave]

Thanks guys. I checked the seating die and it was a little dirty with lead build up from loading swaged bullets. I cleaned it out and reduced the bell some. I made sure the bullet was level and went slow. Same problem. I don't know how to tell if the seating die is perfectly aligned.
My brass might not be clean enough and creating friction. I clean with corn cob media... In some of the pulled cases I can see red marks from the coating.

The brass is all from one vendor...but I have never done the trimming step.

I'll call Dillon tomorrow and see what they say.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[Dennis]

Have you tried a Lyman "M" die?

 

[rockquarry]

If you have a micrometer, measure the bullet diameter of three bullets. Is it excessive, i.e., greater than .452"? With a cast lead bullet that is conventionally sized and lubricated, a bullet as large as .453" might seat okay without scraping anything; don't know if this will work with coated.

As for trimming cases, you should never have to do this with .45 ACP, even of you use second-rate mixed range pickup brass. Adjust your case bell where the shortest case will have an adequate bell. This will mean longer cases will receive a slightly excessive bell. This will reduce case life a small amount, but that disadvantage is offset by the convenience of having adequate belling for all cases.

 

[Super Dave]

Interesting Dennis, I have not.
I read on another forum that this would do the same thing but will allow the powder to drop. If I'm understanding it correctly...it increases the inside diameter of the case a little more than the Dillon die.

Mr.BulletFeeder by DAA Powder Funnel - Dillon

 

[Super Dave]

Here's a video of that funnel. Pretty interesting.
Mr.Bulletfeeder(R) by Double-Alpha - Custom powder funnel - YouTube

 

[DRAINSMITH]

When you call Dillon ask them for the alignment tool. It will help you to get your press perfect. It is good for both 550 and 650 presses.

 

[lebomm]

Do you have a properly-fitting seating punch ? Even with the bevel base, trying to seat those SWCs with a RN punch could give you a lot of headaches.

Larry

 

[Super Dave]

Thanks for the tips. I'll ask for the alignment tool.
I measured the bullets and they are .452 and that's what is says on the box.
I did a lot of searching and some people say its a case bell issue. But, I don't think that's the issue since I tried a bunch of different widths.
Anyway, I'll follow up with what Dillon says. If they don't have a good answer I will call the bullet makers back since I'm sure they should have a good solution. Thanks,
DF

 

[Super Dave]

Do you have a properly-fitting seating punch ? Even with the bevel base, trying to seat those SWCs with a RN punch could give you a lot of headaches.

Yes, I checked that earlier. I have the Dillon one for SWC or flat...and one from Unique Tec that was supposed to be even better. Same issue of scraping with both. Thanks,
Dave

 

[Forrest r]

I'd do 2 things:

Test the bullets by using the "smash" test. Hit/smash the bullet with a hammer, the coating should stay on the flattened bullet. Do this to every order of coated bullets you buy.

Use either a custom expander or a lyman m-die. Factory expanders are made for the short/smaller in diameter jacketed bullets. Cast/coated bullets are longer in the body and as you've found out. The coating can easily be scraped off when seating.
A custom expander I made for the 9mm next to a factory expander.

The lyman m-die is designed for the longer bodied bullets and has a step in the top of it that makes a shelf in the top of the case that starts/keeps the bullet straight for seating.

A 45acp lyman m-die next to a factory expander die.

I used cast bullets for decades and have either used the lyman m-dies or made my own long bodied (with shelf) expanders. Never had a problem with cast/coated/swaged lead bullets.

 

[Mike0251]

Slightly chamfer the inside edge of a couple of shells and try it. The edge could have burrs. I found this issue with my .223 loads and it corrected the problem. Although I have never had this issue with pistol rounds and load copper plated bullets.

 

[Engineer1911]

The obvious question

Does this loaded ammo lead your gun barrel? I suspect that this coated scraping happens on thousands of bullets with no leading in the barrel. You think you have a loading problem with coated bullets but the real question is "Do you have a leading problem after shooting the ammo?"

Load and shoot 10 rounds, a leading problem will be obvious.

 

[JBnTx]

Does this loaded ammo lead your gun barrel? I suspect that this coated scraping happens on thousands of bullets with no leading in the barrel. You think you have a loading problem with coated bullets but the real question is "Do you have a leading problem after shooting the ammo?"

Load and shoot 10 rounds, a leading problem will be obvious.

^^^^^I agree.

Some coating is scraped off all coated bullets as they are seated.

As long as you're not getting leading in your barrel, I wouldn't worry about it.

Expand your cases just enough that the bullet can stand up straight on its own in the charged case. No more.

As long as you're not getting a pile of shaved coating on your reloading press, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Pisgah]

^^^^^I agree.

Some coating is scraped off all coated bullets as they are seated.

As long as you're not getting leading in your barrel, I wouldn't worry about it.

Expand your cases just enough that the bullet can stand up straight on its own in the charged case. No more.

As long as you're not getting a pile of shaved coating on your reloading press, I wouldn't worry about it.

Yep. Unless you are actually experiencing excessive leading, you have no problem And from the pictures, you are clearly over-belling your brass, which will result in work-hardening and early failure of cases.