Went to see one in person. I really wanted it. Blue metal case w/tools. Nice gun.
I stopped bidding after $3000. It hammered at...wait for it...$4500. That's $5625 OTD. I'm still trying to catch my breath. At least I got to handle it.
4th Model SS, Straight Line Target
- Thread starter Retired W4
- Start date
Went to see one in person. I really wanted it. Blue metal case w/tools. Nice gun.
I stopped bidding after $3000. It hammered at...wait for it...$4500. That's $5625 OTD. I'm still trying to catch my breath. At least I got to handle it.
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My dear friend Ernie Rice had 72 Straightlines. Some he paid more then that, some a lot less.
One man's considered opinion: That's a ridiculous price!
That opinion's based on these facts: Mine sold as follows during the last three years ending a year ago as follows----
#128, another "nice gun"---with case and tools-----$2000
#1577, a nicer gun---with a nicer case and tools----$2920
So much for facts!
Another fact is you're up against it in an auction environment. The "it" you're up against is a competitor with the same desire, more money, and less good sense.
Your options are to throw good sense to the winds, and continue the fight; or go home and lick your wounds. It's this option I chose with what was to be my first Triple Lock Target---and "I really wanted it.". That went like this: I figured to buy this gun for $5500. I told the nice lady on the phone I would not be making any bids---to just tell me when it was time to buy the gun. About two seconds later she told me "He's at $7000, do you want to go to $7500? "Uh---no ma'am----thank you---I'm out!"
I'm in a blue funk for a couple of months, when the phone rings. That goes like this: "Ralph, this is (So&So), SWCA. I see in the roster you collect targets." "Yes." "Do you have a Triple Lock?" "No." "Do you want a Triple Lock?" "Yes." "Ralph, we have one---it doesn't fit in our collection, and we want to sell it. Ralph, it's the best one we've ever seen!" "For how much?" "$5500." "What's the least you'll take?" "$5250." "Sold!"
If you want to know how good the best one they'd ever seen was, it was the last gun sold from my collection----just about a year ago----$10,000. (!!!!)
All this is just to illustrate there is a God, and he'll look out for you if you're patient, and use your good sense---pretty much the same as if there wasn't a God.
My good sense told me auctions are all well and good, aside from the fact you're up against crazy people---and some of them have the cash to back it up. Do you really want to fight in a war like that?
I started off the same as most----gun shows, auctions, and dealer's catalogs. I spent a lot of time and money running around the country with less than desired results. The good news is I came to know the folks who pretty much always had good stuff----and I called them. I told them what I was after, and asked them to let me know if/when they had it. They did, and then I had it----"No fuss, no muss, and no bother!"------and GOOD STUFF!!
Ralph Tremaine
That opinion's based on these facts: Mine sold as follows during the last three years ending a year ago as follows----
#128, another "nice gun"---with case and tools-----$2000
#1577, a nicer gun---with a nicer case and tools----$2920
So much for facts!
Another fact is you're up against it in an auction environment. The "it" you're up against is a competitor with the same desire, more money, and less good sense.
Your options are to throw good sense to the winds, and continue the fight; or go home and lick your wounds. It's this option I chose with what was to be my first Triple Lock Target---and "I really wanted it.". That went like this: I figured to buy this gun for $5500. I told the nice lady on the phone I would not be making any bids---to just tell me when it was time to buy the gun. About two seconds later she told me "He's at $7000, do you want to go to $7500? "Uh---no ma'am----thank you---I'm out!"
I'm in a blue funk for a couple of months, when the phone rings. That goes like this: "Ralph, this is (So&So), SWCA. I see in the roster you collect targets." "Yes." "Do you have a Triple Lock?" "No." "Do you want a Triple Lock?" "Yes." "Ralph, we have one---it doesn't fit in our collection, and we want to sell it. Ralph, it's the best one we've ever seen!" "For how much?" "$5500." "What's the least you'll take?" "$5250." "Sold!"
If you want to know how good the best one they'd ever seen was, it was the last gun sold from my collection----just about a year ago----$10,000. (!!!!)
All this is just to illustrate there is a God, and he'll look out for you if you're patient, and use your good sense---pretty much the same as if there wasn't a God.
My good sense told me auctions are all well and good, aside from the fact you're up against crazy people---and some of them have the cash to back it up. Do you really want to fight in a war like that?
I started off the same as most----gun shows, auctions, and dealer's catalogs. I spent a lot of time and money running around the country with less than desired results. The good news is I came to know the folks who pretty much always had good stuff----and I called them. I told them what I was after, and asked them to let me know if/when they had it. They did, and then I had it----"No fuss, no muss, and no bother!"------and GOOD STUFF!!
Ralph Tremaine
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And I'll bet money Ernie Rice had some Straight Lines I've never seen!
I was satisfied with one early and one late---not really satisfied but close enough. N&J tells us there were four changes made between the two---and tells us when (within a serial number range). Actually, there were FIVE changes made---and the fifth one is pretty hard to miss. The early guns had an "Olympic Chamber"---the later ones didn't.
It stands to reason not all these changes were made at one time, so it also stands to reason there are guns out there with some, but not all of the changes. My early gun was an early gun---had everything the later ones didn't. Same goes for the later gun---had none of the stuff the early guns had. The middle guns stand as TRUE collectors items---and Ernie was for damn sure a TRUE collector----one of those who could answer ANY question you might have---and did so.
Ralph Tremaine
The Straight Line brought me up short, and slowed me WAY down!
It was my practice to take all my new arrivals completely apart for their welcome bath. Then this first Straight Line shows up. There's a X-Ray photo of a Straight Line in N&J---also a copy of the patent drawing. That's it---there ain't no more----nobody's book tells you the first thing about disassembly/reassembly---at least none at the time---and I don't know of any since.
Finally, when I couldn't stand it any longer, I jumped in. Wonder of wonders, it even worked when I got it back together!
I was satisfied with one early and one late---not really satisfied but close enough. N&J tells us there were four changes made between the two---and tells us when (within a serial number range). Actually, there were FIVE changes made---and the fifth one is pretty hard to miss. The early guns had an "Olympic Chamber"---the later ones didn't.
It stands to reason not all these changes were made at one time, so it also stands to reason there are guns out there with some, but not all of the changes. My early gun was an early gun---had everything the later ones didn't. Same goes for the later gun---had none of the stuff the early guns had. The middle guns stand as TRUE collectors items---and Ernie was for damn sure a TRUE collector----one of those who could answer ANY question you might have---and did so.
Ralph Tremaine
The Straight Line brought me up short, and slowed me WAY down!
It was my practice to take all my new arrivals completely apart for their welcome bath. Then this first Straight Line shows up. There's a X-Ray photo of a Straight Line in N&J---also a copy of the patent drawing. That's it---there ain't no more----nobody's book tells you the first thing about disassembly/reassembly---at least none at the time---and I don't know of any since.
Finally, when I couldn't stand it any longer, I jumped in. Wonder of wonders, it even worked when I got it back together!
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OP
I wasn't even thinking about the chambers on this one. The SN is 396.
The story on Olympic Chambers/barrels goes like this: In the beginning there was one-----on the 3rd Model Single Shot------and the great unwashed complained---It's too hard to load (seat the round).
Okay, try this one---also on the 3rd Model S.S. It (the chamber) is longer (about .025")----and it's still too difficult to load for the fussers. As an aside, this came about between #'s 10617 and 11112---never came across any that got me closer. As another aside, there's no difference in accuracy between the two---according to my somewhat less than scientific test------25 rounds from each gun at 25 yards---seated, two hand hold, with a rest---and included a standard chamber gun. The results: Standard pistol--all 10 ring, early Olympic, all X ring, late Olympic, all X ring.
Okay again, try this one (on the early Straight Line): It's a bunch longer---never measured it accurately because the dummy doing the measuring overlooked the recessed chamber (first handgun with such so as to make proper cleaning more difficult)---after the problem with blown rims had already been solved by Remington---by using better brass rather than the low priced spread.
And the complaints continued! S&W reacted by saying "Screw it!"---and there were no more "Olympic Chambers".----this from Jinks.
Bottom Line: The great unwashed didn't know when they were well off!
Ralph Tremaine
I'm betting #396 has the Olympic Chamber---and the adjustable trigger pull---and all the rest of the pre-change stuff. That because all the changes came between #'s 785 and 942 (in 1928)---according to N&J.
As another aside I damn well better mention (or get crucified!) there are both 1st and 2nd Model S.S.'s out there with Olympic chambers/barrels. That I know---have been told---never had one. What I don't know is whether or not that's the way they came from the factory the first time around. Of course there are others, but they say POPE on the barrel----or the other guy whose name was Neider/Nieder/whatever I recognize but never seem to remember when I need to do so.
Okay, try this one---also on the 3rd Model S.S. It (the chamber) is longer (about .025")----and it's still too difficult to load for the fussers. As an aside, this came about between #'s 10617 and 11112---never came across any that got me closer. As another aside, there's no difference in accuracy between the two---according to my somewhat less than scientific test------25 rounds from each gun at 25 yards---seated, two hand hold, with a rest---and included a standard chamber gun. The results: Standard pistol--all 10 ring, early Olympic, all X ring, late Olympic, all X ring.
Okay again, try this one (on the early Straight Line): It's a bunch longer---never measured it accurately because the dummy doing the measuring overlooked the recessed chamber (first handgun with such so as to make proper cleaning more difficult)---after the problem with blown rims had already been solved by Remington---by using better brass rather than the low priced spread.
And the complaints continued! S&W reacted by saying "Screw it!"---and there were no more "Olympic Chambers".----this from Jinks.
Bottom Line: The great unwashed didn't know when they were well off!
Ralph Tremaine
I'm betting #396 has the Olympic Chamber---and the adjustable trigger pull---and all the rest of the pre-change stuff. That because all the changes came between #'s 785 and 942 (in 1928)---according to N&J.
As another aside I damn well better mention (or get crucified!) there are both 1st and 2nd Model S.S.'s out there with Olympic chambers/barrels. That I know---have been told---never had one. What I don't know is whether or not that's the way they came from the factory the first time around. Of course there are others, but they say POPE on the barrel----or the other guy whose name was Neider/Nieder/whatever I recognize but never seem to remember when I need to do so.
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OP
My 3rd Model, D 9402 let the LR round slip right in. My 1st, from 1909 is in the basement somewhere. I'll dig it out. D=duplicate.
I wonder what the D prefix SS would bring at auction. Maybe there is someone out there who would bid it up to $2500.
I wonder what the D prefix SS would bring at auction. Maybe there is someone out there who would bid it up to $2500.
.My 3rd Model, D 9402 let the LR round slip right in. My 1st, from 1909 is in the basement somewhere. I'll dig it out. D=duplicate.
I wonder what the D prefix SS would bring at auction. Maybe there is someone out there who would bid it up to $2500.
Jinks has said in all fairly recent letters on 3rds that all of them after #9548 are Olympic Models. This was at about the same time I'd decided all of them shipped after 1920 were Olympics. Since then, I've come across only one gun numbered higher than 9548---and shipped after 1920 that wasn't an Olympic. Needless to say, his pains taking research trumps mine---and my SWAG; but since then I've come across only one gun numbered above 9548 and shipped after 1920 that wasn't an Olympic.
Ralph Tremaine
OP
Yep, my 1st model (24339) is easy to load. Too early for the Olympic model nonsense. I have not shot that one yet. When I handle the single shot guns I always think of some rich guy during the Great Depression, down in his man cave, sipping on a cognac, popping away at a target. It keeps his mind off the idea of jumping out a 14th floor window.
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