5 rounds = cylinder erosion

[surferdaddy]

Sooo, I have always wanted an AirLite j frame. I have read bunches about the special care needed when cleaning and selecting ammunition with these titanium cylinder revolvers; therefore I used only remoil and shooters choice on the gun.

I finally went to the range to function check the new piece. 50 round of 158gr 38 went fine. Then I loaded up 5 rounds of 125gr Critical defense 357 magnum and the gun ran great. I was expecting more punishment and even wore a glove to keep the gun from popping my knuckle. I’m kinda a big guy and when I used a hard crush grip the recoil wasn’t all that bad for me. I loved the outing.

Then I checked the gun and saw flame cutting on one cylinder.

So it is on its way to s&w now. I thought I did everything right. Then I noticed a few posts here and there where others claimed to have similar experiences with critical defense 125gr 357 magnum.

This is the moment I believe my cylinder started to disintegrate

I really hope that Smith and Wesson takes care of me. I love this little gun. I think I will find another load; probably one that’s heavier than 125gr.

I’ll keep all posted on what happens.

-surfer

 

[Mrnurse]

WOW Looks like a Fireworks display.... so ahhh I wouldnt use that ammo and send it back.

 

[michpatriot]

Critically defensive

Hornady 125 gr For the win again...I have a theory on this, and what I think is happening is that the crimp is too light on some of these cases allowing the bullet to move too soon. Seems like Hornady is the worst offender.

 

[EarlB]

I hope they get you all fixed up! I love my Smiths, I truly do. But after a few posts like yours I sold or traded all my lightweights. Every one of them. Besides I’m an N frame guy at heart and can’t get enough of those big boys.

 

[surferdaddy]

I hope they get you all fixed up! I love my Smiths, I truly do. But after a few posts like yours I sold or traded all my lightweights. Every one of them. Besides I’m an N frame guy at heart and can’t get enough of those big boys.

I’m sure that they will; it is in everyone’s best interest. It is crazy how heavy my sig p365 feels in my pocket now. My Smith has only been gone a couple of hours and I already miss it.

 

[michpatriot]

I have two of these little cannons, one for carry one to beat on at the range. I've shot literally several thousand rounds from my range slave 340 and only a few little scratches on the ti cylinder face that have stayed the same since they appeared. I've shot just about everything except Hornady. Buffalo Bore 180 gr take the prize for most punishing..lol in a league of their own. I'd highly recommend finding some Gold Dot 357 135 gr they seem to be the right balance between 38 special and full planet wrecker 357 and they don't seem to be harmful to the ti cylinder, I've shot a ton of these and they seem to get along with the titanium. 125 gr Gold Dots also don't seem to damage the cylinder but are really like a small nuke going off in front of you. I honestly think that case crimp variations are a contributing factor to these erosion problems, allowing the bullet to move too soon and allow the powder to burn excessively through the cylinder gap.

 

[Univibe]

Shoot 158 grains. The hot 125s are too much.

 

[H Richard]

The problem is the 125 gr bullet, it is too short and the bullet passes by the BC gap earlier in the burn sequence when the gasses are the hottest. This is what causes the the erosion and flame cutting in the top strap. A minimum of 140 gr bullet will usually stop that, 158's definitely will.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

It is the bullet. They are great guns, but need the ammo that they are designed for.

 

[muddocktor]

Isn't there a warning from S&W about shooting 357 Mag cartridges with bullets weighing less than 140 grains in these titanium cylinder guns? I seem to remember that being said here multiple times.

 

[StrawHat]

So this is basically the same problem the Model 19 had when used with lightweight loads? Seems we have been down this road before.

Kevin

 

[surferdaddy]

Isn't there a warning from S&W about shooting 357 Mag cartridges with bullets weighing less than 140 grains in these titanium cylinder guns? I seem to remember that being said here multiple times.

S&W says no bullets less than 120gr. I will now be using bullets greater than 135-140 gr. I think I’ll try to find some good 158 gr bullets.

 

[surferdaddy]

The problem is the 125 gr bullet, it is too short and the bullet passes by the BC gap earlier in the burn sequence when the gasses are the hottest. This is what causes the the erosion and flame cutting in the top strap. A minimum of 140 gr bullet will usually stop that, 158's definitely will.

Hey; of all the explanations I’ve heard thus far this one makes the most sense to me. Thanks.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

call me old school but.......
357/.38 =158 gr
.44 mag = 240 gr
9mm=115 gr
45=230 gr
(bullet type is up to you but use these weights)
30-06 = 180 gr
.223 = 55 gr
7x39 = 139 gr

If these weights are not enough for intended purpose, either get closer or just shoot it again.

 

[michpatriot]

S&W says no bullets less than 120gr. I will now be using bullets greater than 135-140 gr. I think I’ll try to find some good 158 gr bullets.

Make sure they have a good crimp..for the other reason you will find next with these Airlites..crimp jump allowing the bullet to fully unseat especially with the higher grain bullets,the bullet can and will slide forward and tie up cylinder rotation. These are finicky beasts and when you choose a carry round it needs to be tested to see if it jumps crimp. I personally now have a solution for my piece of mind and it's called Lee collet crimp in station 4 of my Dillon press. After crimping my rounds they don't move Even .001 tested to more than a dozen firing cycles. Plan on spending a little time and money to get a round that does not grow/ creep and then buy a bunch in the same production lot# or roll your own..

 

[Peak53]

So this is basically the same problem the Model 19 had when used with lightweight loads? Seems we have been down this road before.

Kevin

I don't believe this is the same problem. The Model 19 problem, real or imagined, was the thin flat spot on the forcing cone of the steel barrel. The issue on the 340 revolves around the titanium cylinder. Altogether different. As some of the posts suggest, this may be mitigated by ammo choice. THAT is what is similar to the Model 19 issue. Or, maybe the issue is that SW has developed a couple specific models that are not ready for prime time with actual fire-breathing magnums. Call it a .38 and go home.

 

[dr. mordo]

That picture of the round firing is both hilarious and frightening.

I don't know how y'all shoot magnums out of those guns.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Then I loaded up 5 rounds of 125gr Critical defense 357 magnum and the gun ran great.
Then I checked the gun and saw flame cutting on one cylinder.

Since only one chamber has that erosion do you think it might have been the last round fired? As michpatriot mentioned, these lightweight revolver can have a problem with the bullets jumping crimp after repeated rounds have been fired before it.

It's always good to check, but more important if it's for self defense, that any new ammo doesn't jump crimp by loading a cylinder full of ammo & checking the last round, before you fire it, for bullet movement from the prior fired rounds .

Possibly that's why it happened?

.

 

[Univibe]

call me old school but.......
357/.38 =158 gr
.44 mag = 240 gr
9mm=115 gr
45=230 gr
(bullet type is up to you but use these weights)
30-06 = 180 gr
.223 = 55 gr
7x39 = 139 gr

If these weights are not enough for intended purpose, either get closer or just shoot it again.

I agree. When I first started loading, a long time ago, I used all kinds of different bullet weights. For my handloads now, I use

.45 ACP 230 grain
10mm 180 grain
.44 spl and .44 mag 240 grain
.357 magnum 158 grain
9mm 124 grain
.223 55 grain

If I needed some specialized round, for hunting or something, I could load it, but I stick to ONE bullet in my handloads. In the .357 and .44 mag I can load it up or down, but always that one bullet.

This simplifies not only the mechanical operation of loading, but I also don't have to inventory several different bullets per caliber.

 

[JimCunn]

I've not had any erosion using 147gr 9mm in the titanium cylinder in my 637-2.