645 to 745 conversion? Prototype?

[mamcdonald]

I'm pretty sure I posted about this a couple of years ago, but the forums also had no record of my email so who knows. I picked this up at a local store for a song not knowing anything about it. Now, I have a little more context but still don't really know the whole story.






(I think) I know this much: The 645 was sold from 1985-88, the 745 from 1986-90. This pistol, serial TANxxxx, is a 1986 made 645 that has all the features of a 745 (SAO, hammerblock safety, extended magazine release, Novak sights, adjustable trigger stop) along with a few extras that as far as I know are unique to this example (undercut trigger guard, flared mag well). It's wearing some handmade grip panels from Craig Spegel with square grip bushings that don't fit the other grips it came with. It also has the slickest slide I've ever felt and is probably hand fitted. The next two pictures are why I say that:

So the Novaks custom shop built this in 1986, right around when the 745 was being developed, either as a proof-of-concept for S&W or (more likely) for somebody who knew about it and wanted one but didn't want to wait til it hit the market. I spoke to Craig Spegel shortly after I got the gun who said most or all of the 645 grips he made went to Wayne Novak, although there are apparently Uncle Mikes grips patterned after them.





So I post all of that just to ask this: what on earth is this thing worth? Do I try to market it as a 645 or 745? Do I just keep it as a marvel of engineering and a great shooting handgun? I think I’ll go with that last one. Thanks for reading!

 

[cherrypointmarine]

I myself would keep it . they'd have to pry it away from me . I have 3 745's and one 645 , love them all . But my 645 is more accurate than any of my 745's . Now if you ever find yourself needing money for another desire , post it up here . I bet it would be snagged in a heart beat .

 

[Sevens]

I love the grips. I will argue against Uncle Mike’s having ever made a set of anything that ever fit a 645 or 745, but they certainly did make a set for the 59/659 that look very much like these, but in rubber.

The price/value is hard to set, and it won’t appeal to the folks who are paying (arguably) high money for mint and near mint examples of long out of production guns like the 645/745. I’m with Cherrypointmarine above, I would -LOVE- to own that pistol, and that’s how it would find a buyer, someone who likes odd stuff.

That it is actually marked with the Novak name definitely helps it’s value, but any price that anyone suggests for it is simply a guess.

It isn’t mint, but in my opinion low end should be somewhere around what a high grade 745 pulls right now, so $750. High end would be determined at the time of sale.

For this particular gun, I would be far, FAR more inclined to pull out my wallet if the pistol were in front of me to handle. A 745 as shipped is a pistol that I don’t need to handle and feel to determine how badly I want it, but something custom is a different animal.

Here is my question to you...
Do you own any Performance Center 5 or 6-inch target pistols? (952, 945, 845, PPC-9, 3566 Limited) ? If not any of those, do you have experience with a S&W Model 52? Because those are what I would want to compare the feel of the slide on the frame and the feel, break and reset of the trigger.

A 745 is a great pistol, but the slide to frame fit and every facet of the trigger couldn’t carry one of the pistols listed above’s jock in a wheelbarrow. To guys who appreciate a top-drawer pistol, a 745, as much as I love them, does NOT live in the same echelon as a 952 or 52. And a 645 trails the 745.

Great pistol, I’d love to have it!

 

[Bruce51]

A very interesting S&W that would definitely be a keeper.

In the picture I see what may be some raised metal in the hammer block lever slide cut out. Is that what I'm seeing right near the top edge?

I have a 745 that had a raised area in the same spot.

Over time the lever rode over the raised area. This caused the gun to FTF due to interference with the firing pin. It also rounded the back of the safety lever.

I was able to flatten the cut out but safety levers are hard to get. Eventually I was able to get a complete slide as I did not trust the original.

If the area is level then you are GTG. If not have the cut out area leveled so the lever stays straight forward during recoil.

Just posting my experience FWIW.

 

[4T5GUY]

I think it’s a great custom S&W .45 and I would be very super happy to have it in my possession. I’ve only seen your pictures but I’m sure it is above any 645/745 factory offering.

I suppose I’m in the minority of those thinking 745’s “can” be really great pistols, (depending on care of the parts fitment and assembly.) I’m prejudiced because I luckily have a nice one. Slide to frame fit is tight, trigger is perfect and it is a very accurate pistol.

I actually do have some, (real,) PC examples to compare it to, most are .45’s. It holds its own.

I don’t want to get into another argument here but it’s a PC assembled 745 that left in 1998. It’s a Performance Center Special obviously assembled with left over parts. Earl at LH said they got 15 of them March/April of 1998.

I’m sure that any legitimately customized 645/745, like the people, (uhhgg I almost said “folks”, a word I will NEVER use again,) who have worked on yours would be a fantastic pistol.

Jim

 

[Frank Black]

Good gawd, ... you mean somebody named 'Titus' customized that?

Interesting hybridized specimen you have there, sir.

 

[mamcdonald]

Here is my question to you...
Do you own any Performance Center 5 or 6-inch target pistols? (952, 945, 845, PPC-9, 3566 Limited) ? If not any of those, do you have experience with a S&W Model 52? Because those are what I would want to compare the feel of the slide on the frame and the feel, break and reset of the trigger.

A 745 is a great pistol, but the slide to frame fit and every facet of the trigger couldn’t carry one of the pistols listed above’s jock in a wheelbarrow. To guys who appreciate a top-drawer pistol, a 745, as much as I love them, does NOT live in the same echelon as a 952 or 52. And a 645 trails the 745.

Great pistol, I’d love to have it!

I don't own any of those, but a 52 has been high on my list for a while. I messaged a seller on The Auction Site last night who is selling a 952 and is local to me and he was kind enough to let me come see and handle it today. It was a very quick meeting and I didn't want to risk any potential scratches or damage to his gun, but based on that the two really weren't closely comparable. The 952 felt much tighter in terms of springs and slide fit, although it was essentially still NIB and mine has seen some use over the last 35 years.


On my digital trigger gauge my 645 registers between 3.75-4lbs, has very little takeup and an extremely crisp break and the classic S&W auto reset that feels almost instantaneous. If I can try to make a video if I can find a third or fourth hand to hold the camera


edit: Oh and I misspoke in my first post, its a beveled magwell not flared. I don't have a regular 645 to know if that's a feature common to them

 

[18DAI]

Novak's 45 Shop in Parkersburg WV use to do a lot of custom work on 645s and later 3rd Gen pistols.

One was called the "Full House 645". It included a trigger job, Barsto barrel installation, Novak Low Mount sights and an undercut trigger guard. VERY nice 45.

I purchased the last 645 Barsto barrel Mr Novak had in the shop, several years ago. Novak's no longer does work, other than installing sights, on the 2nd/3rd Gen guns. But, I know a guy that does.

Very nice hybrid 645 OP. I would not let that one get away. Regards 18DAI

 

[cherrypointmarine]

18DAI , how would you tell if a 645 went to Novak . Mine is an awesome piece , it can shoot with my 945's easily . The sights have been changed and there's other signs it's been worked on .
You know me and my PC guns , so I don't make that statement easily .

 

[18DAI]

cherrypointmarine if a pistol went to Novak's for customization, it will be marked with "Novaks", somewhere on the gun.

If it was more than just adding sights. For a trigger job and barrel installation or "full house" package, the Novak's logo was stamped on the right side of the slide. Usually at the muzzle. But on some guns a smaller logo was stamped on the back of the right side of the slide.

There use to be a few members here who owned Custom Novak's 3rd gens. Maybe they will post. I only wish I had been aware and had the money when Mr Novak was still providing this service on 3rd Gen pistols.

I find a customized 645 very appealing. My 60th is approaching. I think I will get a customized 645 to commemorate the occasion. If it shoots with a 945, BONUS! Stay tuned. Regards 18DAI

 

[cherrypointmarine]

Thanks for the answer . I'm going to pull it out and see if I can find anything .
Are you going to have Bill fix you one up ? You looking to customize it ? There's a surprise coming , another member is customizing one of my 457's . Maybe it'll give you some ideas .

 

[18DAI]

Yes, I am in the queue for BMCM's excellent work! A few years ago he did a 457 for me. Installed Novak low mount rear night sight and an SA28 front.

It really made the 457 easier to shoot accurately. Looking forward to seeing yours! Regards 18DAI