686 no dash no M vs 686-4
- Thread starter capona
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
In gun forums we often see the "which would you pick?" discussion. This one you laid out is a GOOD one! Many believe that the dash-4 is the best of all versions of the 686. Typically, you also never go wrong when you chiose the OLDER one. And S&W still honors the warranty repair to get your "M" stamp (it is minor)
In my opinion, it truly comes down to the little things that would make my choice. Which comes with original box or any accessories? Barrel length the same? Price? Can you handle/inspect each?
As for "value", generally only the hardcore folks know the dash-4 is sought after specifically which means that the "older one" is most likely by default more marketable... or "valuable" to the general audience.
The grips/stocks make for interesting debate also. The Hogue is awful ugly to me... but aomewhat comfy. A no-dash with original goncalo alves is the winner to me, but they are NO FUN for magnum loads.
Good debate. No loser between these two.
In my opinion, it truly comes down to the little things that would make my choice. Which comes with original box or any accessories? Barrel length the same? Price? Can you handle/inspect each?
As for "value", generally only the hardcore folks know the dash-4 is sought after specifically which means that the "older one" is most likely by default more marketable... or "valuable" to the general audience.
The grips/stocks make for interesting debate also. The Hogue is awful ugly to me... but aomewhat comfy. A no-dash with original goncalo alves is the winner to me, but they are NO FUN for magnum loads.
Good debate. No loser between these two.
Pizza Bob
Member
The -4 is considered by many to be the pinnacle of development of the 686 line. No MIM, no lock, new rear sight with drilled & tapped top strap. So my vote goes for the 686-4.
Adios,
Pizza Bob
Adios,
Pizza Bob
Short answer: They are both relatively equal. Do not be afraid of a non-modified 586 (no dash) revolver.
Longer Answer: Models 581, 581-1, 586, 586-1, 681, 681-1, 686 (no dash), and 686-1 were all recalled by S&W to change the hammer nose bushing because of the potential, supposedly when firing .357 magnum loads with softer Federal primers, to experience binding of the cylinder due to rearward expansion of the primer causing the primer to rub up against the hammer nose busing and/or the recoil shields thus retarding rotation of the cylinder.
If the revolver has been modified (repaired = hammer nose bushing replaced) by S&W you should find a M stamped on the frame opposite the yoke.
As best I can determine S&W will still make this repair - no charge for the repair or shipping as best I recall. It is fairly painless to deal with S&W. Hopefully another S&W Forum member can confirm if S&W still makes this repair.
Between myself, my father, and another relative we own at least 3 of these recalled models and none of us have ever had the modification (repair) performed on our revolvers and we've never experience any binding. One of use shoots a significant amount of .357 magnum and one of use only shoots .38 special. I shoot some .357 (a few hundred rounds through one of the revolvers).
My best estimate, based upon reading many posts about this question, is that other shooter have the same experience as I've had - i.e. in practical use there has been no problem without the modification.
The one instance I would want to get the repair (modification) performed is if I was using the gun for self defense and I needed it to be as reliable as possible.
If you were to get a non-modified revolver:
1. I would bet you'd experience what I suspect is the norm, i.e. no problems.
2. On the other hand if you obtain a non-modified gun and start experiencing problems then send it off to S&W.
3. Or, you can just send it off to get repaired (modified) if that's what suits you.
Longer Answer: Models 581, 581-1, 586, 586-1, 681, 681-1, 686 (no dash), and 686-1 were all recalled by S&W to change the hammer nose bushing because of the potential, supposedly when firing .357 magnum loads with softer Federal primers, to experience binding of the cylinder due to rearward expansion of the primer causing the primer to rub up against the hammer nose busing and/or the recoil shields thus retarding rotation of the cylinder.
If the revolver has been modified (repaired = hammer nose bushing replaced) by S&W you should find a M stamped on the frame opposite the yoke.
As best I can determine S&W will still make this repair - no charge for the repair or shipping as best I recall. It is fairly painless to deal with S&W. Hopefully another S&W Forum member can confirm if S&W still makes this repair.
Between myself, my father, and another relative we own at least 3 of these recalled models and none of us have ever had the modification (repair) performed on our revolvers and we've never experience any binding. One of use shoots a significant amount of .357 magnum and one of use only shoots .38 special. I shoot some .357 (a few hundred rounds through one of the revolvers).
My best estimate, based upon reading many posts about this question, is that other shooter have the same experience as I've had - i.e. in practical use there has been no problem without the modification.
The one instance I would want to get the repair (modification) performed is if I was using the gun for self defense and I needed it to be as reliable as possible.
If you were to get a non-modified revolver:
1. I would bet you'd experience what I suspect is the norm, i.e. no problems.
2. On the other hand if you obtain a non-modified gun and start experiencing problems then send it off to S&W.
3. Or, you can just send it off to get repaired (modified) if that's what suits you.
Yorkie Man
Member
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2008
- Messages
- 573
- Reaction score
- 264
I purchased a 586 off of this forum several years ago and it was new in the box and had not been modified so I contacted S&W and was told if it does not hang up when firing magnums then it would be OK. they also told me they did not routinely modify the older guns anymore. I have fired magnums in the 586 and have not had the cylinder lock up so I won't send this one back.
I can tell you from personal experience that my first duty revolver was a 686, that I still have, and it indeed locked up the cylinder with Federal 357 Magnum loads. When it locked up you could not rotated the cylinder with the trigger or hammer no matter how hard you pulled so you had to open the cylinder. We received the tools and parts from S&W when they became available to modify them ourselves, we were S&W trained.
I would not hesitate to buy another unmodified 581, 586, 681 or 686. If you are not going to use it for self defense try the loads you plan on carrying to make sure you don't have any problems and if so contact S&W. I must also say I have had a 19-5 lock up when the strain screw backed off.
I can tell you from personal experience that my first duty revolver was a 686, that I still have, and it indeed locked up the cylinder with Federal 357 Magnum loads. When it locked up you could not rotated the cylinder with the trigger or hammer no matter how hard you pulled so you had to open the cylinder. We received the tools and parts from S&W when they became available to modify them ourselves, we were S&W trained.
I would not hesitate to buy another unmodified 581, 586, 681 or 686. If you are not going to use it for self defense try the loads you plan on carrying to make sure you don't have any problems and if so contact S&W. I must also say I have had a 19-5 lock up when the strain screw backed off.
spad124
Member
I've had a 686-1 since 1988 when I bought it new. I sent it in to S&W for the recall work two years ago. I did not have any problems with the revolver, after almost 30 years shooting I just wanted to have the recall work performed. There were no questions or problems from S&W. The turn around door to door was about 2 1/2 weeks. The quality of work was excellent. I carry my 686 regularly as a sportsman's sidearm so it's not a collector's piece, but not abused either.
Mehutch
Member
The S&W 686-4 in any barrel length is one great shooter, hell any 686-1,-2,-3,-5,-6 or no dash is and will always be one fine gun.
so enjoy your pick, and shoot 'em up.
so enjoy your pick, and shoot 'em up.
Last edited:
OLDSTER
Member
Agree that the 686-4 is considered by most to be the pinnacle of the 686 line. All of the upgrades of the previous variants, new rear sight with drilled and tapped top strap, no re-call issues, and the last variant to use forged hammer and trigger ( with the 686-5, S&W began using MIM parts). 
Last edited:
DocB
Member
The -4 is likely the best 686 ever made. Also, the most uncommon when you consider there is only one -4 compared to all the other dashes and no dashes summed up. Mine still has the square butt which is preferred by many. Drilled and tapped counts for a lot too. I spent my youth wishing there was some way to easily put a scope on a handgun without creating a ungainly looking thing.
I have L-frames ranging from 'No-dash" 686 and 586s ..... to -2,-3 and -4s 586s and 681s.... and have owned a couple others I was foolish enough to trade off over the years....................................including a 3" 586.(Going to the woods grabbed the 4" 686.... Concealed Carry a 3" 66) and a 4" 681.
If I could only have one revolver..... it would be a 4" L-frame..... a perfect blend of the grip frame and trigger reach of the K-frame with the 'can shoot any and all .357 magnums all day strength" of the N-frame.
If I could only have one revolver..... it would be a 4" L-frame..... a perfect blend of the grip frame and trigger reach of the K-frame with the 'can shoot any and all .357 magnums all day strength" of the N-frame.
Last edited:
I think it really boils down to the characteristics of the two guns you are looking at. Which is "better" for you. I believe the old ones have better actions in terms of what I like. They carry up more consistently and early like I like. The -4 obviously has all the refinements, and still has the forged parts. So, really, we cannot make your decision as you have to compare the two guns with each other and with what you want to do with them. For example, if you are considering mounting a scope or red dot, go with the -4. I think all the 686, 586 guns are basically great, it just depends on each individual gun's qualities that are important. (with the exception of ones with the floating hand)
Good luck with your evaluation and choice.
Good luck with your evaluation and choice.
StakeOut
US Veteran
The 686-4 models that are bringing in the highest prices are the 2 1/2" and 3" barrel lengths.
The 686 CS-1 would be another to look for either the customs service ones or the commercially available ones.I always have my eye out for all pre MIM in 3" barrel lengths that are nice condition shooters and unaltered.
The 686 CS-1 would be another to look for either the customs service ones or the commercially available ones.I always have my eye out for all pre MIM in 3" barrel lengths that are nice condition shooters and unaltered.
Just to stir the pot I'll add that for my last 686 I chose an earlier dash because I prefer flash chrome plated hammers and triggers and I liked its nicely grained goncalo wood stocks. While those two features would be expensive changes to a dash 4 I buy "comfy" pre-owned rubber Hogues for $10 to $15. The main attraction to dash 4s is they combine forged internals with factory tapped holes for mounting optics. Since I do not mount optics on revolvers those holes only have the potential to keep me shooting after my eyes are not good enough in old age. I do not see the holes adding value unless the revolver is a dedicated target gun and your local matches allow red dots or other optics. Ours do not. The holes are undesirable on 2 1/2" 686s because no one mounts optics on them and they are three more places to clean. In exchange for the holes you get hammers and triggers that rust easily, ugly rubber and maybe a round butt.
Round butt grip frames superseded square buts mid way through dash 4 production. Round butts are easier to conceal and can be restored to square butt shape by swapping stocks. Prior to their becoming standard for S&W's whole revolver line the only 4" round butt 686 was the Custom Service CS-1 model. It is easier to find newer 686s that combine a 4" barrel and round butt if that's what you want.
By the way, 6" full lug 686s with a trigger job and modified to reload fast with moon clips are the favored revolver in local matches. They point well, have a good sight radius, have minimal recoil and their shorter trigger reach makes them easier to shoot DA than N frames. Their dash does not matter.
Round butt grip frames superseded square buts mid way through dash 4 production. Round butts are easier to conceal and can be restored to square butt shape by swapping stocks. Prior to their becoming standard for S&W's whole revolver line the only 4" round butt 686 was the Custom Service CS-1 model. It is easier to find newer 686s that combine a 4" barrel and round butt if that's what you want.
By the way, 6" full lug 686s with a trigger job and modified to reload fast with moon clips are the favored revolver in local matches. They point well, have a good sight radius, have minimal recoil and their shorter trigger reach makes them easier to shoot DA than N frames. Their dash does not matter.
StakeOut
US Veteran
'The holes are undesirable on 2 1/2" 686s because no one mounts optics on them and they are three more places to clean. In exchange for the holes you get hammers and triggers that rust easily, ugly rubber and maybe a round butt.'
You should state the needed IMO.
Every time I develop a new load I put a Burris FF3 and mount from forum member revolver ph on a 2 1/2" 686-4 as I do on other drilled and tapped revolvers I own.
I prefer the round to square Hogue rubber grips on my 686-4 at the range than the beautiful wood K/L frame RB combats and RB Targets(bananas) I often photograph it with.
Everything is subjective and resident between the ears.
IMO dashes do matter.
You should state the needed IMO.
Every time I develop a new load I put a Burris FF3 and mount from forum member revolver ph on a 2 1/2" 686-4 as I do on other drilled and tapped revolvers I own.
I prefer the round to square Hogue rubber grips on my 686-4 at the range than the beautiful wood K/L frame RB combats and RB Targets(bananas) I often photograph it with.
Everything is subjective and resident between the ears.
IMO dashes do matter.
Write never on the internet and the exception will quickly be posted. However, the rarity of the exception proves the rule. While there may even be a member who tests his snub nose with a 36X Leupold, for both of you it is how they shoot after after you stand up on your own two hind feet that counts.
My last 686 purchase was a 2 1/2" dash 3. They were the last revolvers to leave S&W with original style Combats. While I keep original stocks with the gun they sell separately in the classifieds here for about 40% of what the package cost. Cost also matters.
My last 686 purchase was a 2 1/2" dash 3. They were the last revolvers to leave S&W with original style Combats. While I keep original stocks with the gun they sell separately in the classifieds here for about 40% of what the package cost. Cost also matters.
686-3 is the best version flash chromed hammer and trigger sq butt factory wood grips as stated in an earlier post the dash-4 is not as good as the -3 the only difference is it's drilled and tapped.
swagmeister
Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2010
- Messages
- 1,123
- Reaction score
- 1,440
If I had to choose, I would go with the Dash-4 and echo the comments made concerning the build quality of it.
357 shooter
Member
I like the -4 series , have them in 2.5 , 4 and 6 inch. Well the 4 is a 586. Starting about 6 years ago was really getting hard to see the Smith bubble gum front sight so the drilled and tapped frame is a feature I really appreciate , yes even on a 2.5".
Did have one of the older dash model that was had the "M" modification performed and it was a great shooter , had great eyesight then too!
Did have one of the older dash model that was had the "M" modification performed and it was a great shooter , had great eyesight then too!
Attachments
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked
Sold/Withdrawn
**SOLD Locally** 6 in 686 No dash No M stamp
