696 handload question

[dot6]

By no means a newbie to reloading; been doing so for thirty years. I do, however, would like EDUCATED opinions on loading for a 696. Now, I've always fed my Colt SAAs, Ruger FlatTops, and m24-3s the standard Skeeter load of 7.5 grains of Unique behind a Keith bullet with great results. My Triple Lock, m1926s, and Charter Arms BullDog I've always reduced to 6.0 grains of Unique and a Keith bullet. With the 696, I have no doubt that the frame and cylinder are easily up to handling the Skeeter stuff, and have done so most of the time in the past, but that super thin forcing cone does worry me to the point where I've been throttling it back to the 6.0 BullDog loads lately. I know the new model 69 .44 Magnum is on an L-frame, but did they thicken the forcing cone on it? Has anyone ever cracked a 696 barrel with Skeeter loads? Bear in mind, I don't pollute any of said .44s with jacketed stuff. Cast Keith boolits only.

 

[elpac3]

I don't think the issue is as critical with lead bullets and moderate loads as it is with jacketed bullets and heavy loads where you are putting the forcing cone under higher pressures and more stress.

 

[murphydog]

I don't have an educated answer, but a philosophical question.

If the 6 and 7.5 gr Unique loads are equally accurate, and you don't 'need' the extra power from 25% more powder, why not stick to the lighter load in your 696? I doubt 7.5 gr will damage the forcing cone, but why use it (especially since you have other cool bullet launchers that you know will handle it just fine)?

By the way, I have fired the stronger load you use in a .44 Bulldog and still have the memories of that

 

[41 fan]

Handloader Magazine December 2014 issue has an article by Brian Pearce that will answer your concerns. Dean

 

[dot6]

To 41 fan: First,thanks for the tip, I'll look that up. Also, I like your user name, as the .41 Magnum and .44 Special are my two personal favorites; different personalities, but both a pleasure.

Murphydog: Your reasoning is sound and logical, and I have actually been shooting .44 Russian loads in the Bulldog and 696, but the 696 handles felt recoil so much more comfortably (especially with the Ahrends boot grips), that I don't WANT to scale it down. And paper punching has proven that it shoots better with 7.5, as well. And I, like yourself, shot a couple of cylinders full of my normal .44 Special loads from stock, and, while not really painful like a .357 Centennial, I can't really say they were really fun, either.

Elpac3: Being both a tight-arse and a long time devotee of casting my own boolits, I figure you are probably right. A Taffin article I read a while back had the pressure of the 7.5 load as around 11,500, which is of course pretty low, and my relatively soft lead bullets should squeeze down pretty easy, I would think. I know the stories of m19s cracking were usually - if not always - related to light-weight bullet at high pressure. But I just look at that thin forcing cone and can't help but be paranoid, hence the posing of the question for others to weigh in on.

Thank you, gentlemen, for your insights.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Handloader Magazine December 2014 issue has an article by Brian Pearce that will answer your concerns.

Since Handloader issue #236 Brian had stated the max. load should be held to 25K psi but in Handloader #293 Brian lowered his suggested max. load to 18K psi for the M396/696. SAAMI max. is 15.5K psi.

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[Snapping Twig]

My thoughts tend to be to keep the velocity to @ 900fps+/- for a 696.

I like my personal load of 6.5g W231 under a 250g 429421.

It's probably in the 850fps area, but it shoots sweet and appears to be powerful enough to do anything you'd need it to do.

 

[Nemo288]

In the article referred to above, Brian opines that the 696 was tested extensively before it was released and IHO is capable of 44 special +P loads.
He suggests 20KPSI is no problem. Maybe even 25.
I just shoot the same loads I have developed in the 624's.
Splitting the difference between the "target" loads and Skeeter, my main loads are usually 6.5 grains of Universal under just about any bullet.
They all shoot better in the 696-1 than they do in the 624s.
I think the issue of the thin forcing cone has been over-blown unless one is trying to shoot Elmers (don't).

Glen Fryxell has a little different take on the 696 and recommends 200-210 grain cast bullets and lists some of his favorite loads using same at:
Fryxell_44Spl_Revisted.pdf

Glen is a recognized expert at the art of casting.
His whole book and other articles are available at the LASC site.
Index to Articles, Firearms, Shooting Sports, Cast Bullets, Industry News, Handloading

Blow up the picture, squint, and you will see some of the loads I do shoot in the 696:

 

[zeke]

Since Handloader issue #236 Brian had stated the max. load should be held to 25K psi but in Handloader #293 Brian lowered his suggested max. load to 18K psi for the M396/696. SAAMI max. is 15.5K psi.

.

Yes Mr. pierce did lower his recommendation down from his first report, due specifically to the thin forcing cone. It is not necessarily pressure that does in the forcing cone, it is force. All the 696 cylinder mouths owned are tight, like .429 abouts. Would be wary of using any upper pressure 250 grain bullet, especially ones sized to fit earlier/wider cylinder throats. And yes there was a gentleman on here years ago using Keith pressure loads, and he also owned up to splitting his forcing cone.

The new L-frame 44 mag is redesigned to have a much thicker forcing cone.

 

[FloridaFlier]

I own a 696. I tried various loads and ended up with 6.0g Unique under a 240g alloy bullet. I tried more powerful loads, but saw no increased accuracy. If you are killing paper, that is my recco.

If you were hunting, or looking for a self defense load, I'd go a bit higher. Not too much though; I like the gun too much to push more power through it.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

All the 696 cylinder mouths owned are tight, like .429 abouts.

My 396NG's throats are .4285". One day I'll open them up a bit.

.

 

[zeke]

If the 396 has that special alloy cylinder, might consider being very very careful about opening up the cylinder throats.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

If the 396 has that special alloy cylinder, might consider being very very careful about opening up the cylinder throats.

Night Guards have the matte black stainless steel cylinders.

.

 

[zeke]

Sorry, missed the ng on end. Wished I had bought a Night guard when they were out.