8 shot speed strip for 5 shot j frame

[sipowicz]

I saw a pic of an 8 shot loader with a model 13 in the "what smith do you trust your life to and does shooting a dog prepare you for two legged creatures.". Anyway, it got me thinking that an 8 shot loader would be easier to manipulate if you loaded it 2 space 1 space 2. Also, it's larger size might also make it easier to load quickly. Discuss......

 

[forrestinmathews]

If I were going to carry one it would be loaded with eight rounds. If I am going to carry ammunition it will be in full containers. I wonder how well it would retain the cartridge with gaps while drawing out of a pocket?

This made me think though about the young to do things under stress. With a speedloader I fumble once to get it in the cylinder and twice to release if it's an HKS. Five times with a speed strip I have to line up and strip.

 

[Kanewpadle]

When I carry a J frame I also carry a 6 round speed strip. Only carry 5 rounds on it. One less round on the strip gives me a little more surface to grab on the strip.

Don't know anything about an eight round speed strip. Never seen one. But it would seem to me that an eight round wouldn't be as easy to use, take up more room in the pocket where a five round fits well.

And if I need 8 more rounds in a fight with a J frame, I would hate to rely on the extra three rounds to save me not to mention taking the time to load the last three.

 

[sipowicz]

Here's a pic courtesy of RealHawkeye.....

 

[forrestinmathews]

But it would seem to me that an eight round wouldn't be as easy to use, take up more room in the pocket where a five round fits well.

And if I need 8 more rounds in a fight with a J frame, I would hate to rely on the extra three rounds to save me not to mention taking the time to load the last three.

I agree on the size. At that point the size is bigger than two speedloaders. That is a 7 round speed strip in the picture.

As far as reloading a J frame, I am going to be moving and shooting so I have plenty of comfort in my ability to create a gap with the adversary to reload. I won't be taking my J frame to a gunfight, it will be what I use to flee from one.

I have no preconceptions as to where when or how many shots my gunfight may take. Therefore I train to fifty yards, with movement, cover and reloading. I figure that beyond fifty yards I will be able to find serious cover and elude most attackers. If I am attacked by a guy with a sniper rifle in the arctic tundra then...

 

[Waywatcher]

When I carry a 5 shot j frame, I carry a Bianchi speed strip loaded with only 5 rounds.

This is because, when it is time for me to reload, I dump the entire cylinder and fill it completely back up, then drop the speed strip on the ground. I don't want to mess with retaining rounds or rubber strips at any point.

3 spaces on an 8 round strip is a interesting concept though.

 

[doc84]

All things considered, If I have a revolver, I want all of the ammo that I can carry. Mo bullets is better bullets. Lots of quality repetitions with a speed strip full of dummy rounds sounds prudent.

 

[Fastbolt]

I used to carry 6 rounds in my speedstrips, but nowadays I only carry 5 rounds in them. Why? Because I only carry them for 5-shot snubs nowadays. If I carried any of my 6-shot revolvers, I'd either carry my speedloaders, or load that extra (6th) round into speedstrips for use with those 6-rd revolvers.

I've spent many years developing the technique of dropping an empty speedloader to the ground upon finishing reloading my revolver. Simpler to keep the same finishing technique to the loading drill, which is to drop the loading device and return the attention of both my hands to the immediate manipulation of the revolver.

Also, speedstrips/loaders aren't manipulated like spare magazines, meaning with the use of the off-hand.

They're typically manipulated with the strong(gun) hand, meaning the revolver has been shifted to the weak (non-gun) hand while they're being used ... and this means the revolver would remain in the off-hand longer, unavailable for immediate firing ... if the user is trying to "pocket" a partially-loaded strip somewhere back upon their person. Habits can be like that, right?

You really want to do that dance under stress? Drop it (the strip) from your gun hand and get your gun hand, and gun, back into the business at hand.

Now, if someone wants to carry 8-rd speedstrips more for the purpose of conveniently carrying extra rounds on their person, and doesn't minding dropping a partially-loaded speedstrip onto the ground if it's ever used for loading under stress ... and if they can instantly revert, under stress, to dropping the partially loaded strip onto the ground instead of trying to pocket it to conserve the remaining 3 rounds ... then that's their call. Kind of like carrying those older 'ammo wallets', in a way.

I guess you could also consider it a revolver variation of a 'tac load', allowing you to conserve rounds remaining in the partially used speedstrip.

I've just found it's usually easier to streamline some of my training drills by keeping it similar when using either speedloaders or strips, which means being able to drop an empty loader/strip to the ground. It's still going to become evidence, anyway, if ever used in an actual incident.

Think you might need that extra 3 rounds left over in an 8-rd strip? Just carry an extra 5-rd speedstrip. Cuts down on the potential confusion that could become involved in trying to pocket/save a partially-loaded strip.

As far as 'spacing' rounds apart in a strip to try and facilitate the loading of a pair and then a pair-and-a-half? That means you've always got to orient the strips in your pockets so you grab them with the same orientation coming out of your pocket. I've never been that lucky, myself, as some of my pockets have allowed rotation and tumbling of some of the strips.

So ... I stack my 5 rounds in a simple row, no spaces between them, so no matter how they come out of my pockets I'm going to be running them 2x2x1 into my cylinders. No extra time needed to orient the strips. I don't even use the 'tail' of the strips anymore (and I've had a few of them break off over time).

Using a speedstrip in your hand isn't quite the same as grabbing a spaced pair of loose rounds from a pair of belt loops.

"Simple" can help in the development of a deft and smooth execution of technique. Adding extra complexity can create extra opportunities for halting "steps" to occur ... which can take away from "smoothness" at inopportune times. "Smooth" can help make it easier to acquire speed of execution.

Just my thoughts.

Time spent loading and manipulating loading devices is time spent NOT being able to put accurate rounds on-target.

Put your emphasis where you think it ought to be, and then train, train & train some more.

 

[sipowicz]

That is a 7 round speed strip in the picture.

Ooops...but you cans till load 2 1 2....

 

[forrestinmathews]

I personally feel that the speed strip was a great idea and peaked in its compact five shot form. I also feel they should have been marketed as "slim strips." Over five shots it's worthless as speed loaders are more expedient and you're already dealing with a larger cylinder. For an eight shot revolver the speed strips are a joke. The loader is now the size of an Iphone inside a casing. You really expect me to believe that you're going to reload that gun with a speed strip when most of them come cut for moonclips? Cut your losses and move to four Safariland comp 1's for increased speed simplicity and capacity. 25 rounds onboard and zero fiddling during a reload. People carry revolvers for simplicity. Why complicate the reloading process with a device that makes it more difficult to recharge the weapon?

 

[VictorLouis]

I don't always have a SLOW-strip on me, LOL. I figure if I get a lull behind cover to reload, use it to dump whatever loaded rounds are left in the gun, and get a faster FULL-load from your speedloader. Tactial charging of a partially empty revolver is a 'skill' I don't ever want to have to use.

 

[Fastbolt]

...People carry revolvers for simplicity. Why complicate the reloading process with a device that makes it more difficult to recharge the weapon?

Back when the speedstrips were introduced you could still find cops wearing bullet loops, or using dump pouches. The speedstrip, properly used, could be faster than the loops and enhance the practicality (such as it was) of the dump pouches.

After I switched out my issued double dump pouches for a double speedloader pouch (at my own expense), I still carried the double dump pouch, but it was filled with speedstrips (with the tabs sticking out the side of the snapped flaps). It was faster and easier to pull a 6-rd speedstrip from the pouches than trying to dump 6 loose rounds into your hand (and try to manipulate them while loading a revolver cylinder ).

The speedstrips were my last resort back up loading devices, in case I ever exhausted my speedloaders.

For plainclothes cops the idea of a couple of speedstrips, instead of trying to carry the bulkier speedloaders in a pocket, or stack them over the top edge of a belt (using one of those nifty single carriers), or even carrying loose rounds in a pocket, was more appealing.

I suspect the speedstrips became popular among private citizen snub carriers for much the same reasons.

It's not that they were as fast as speedloaders (they aren't), or as easily used (a single push or knob twist, depending on the model), but they were more conveniently carried.

Risk assessment. Balancing options, choices & compromises.

If i thought I was going to be loading my snubs under pressure, in the midst of a dynamic situation ... I'd be carrying speedloaders.

I carry speedstrips against the (hopefully) remote potential of actually needing more than the 5 rounds in my snub, and in the hope that if I actually needed to use one of slower strips, it would be from behind cover, or for recharging the weapon before reholstering.

In other words, the strips are a convenience (slim) for pocket carry & portability, but certainly with a disadvantage of requiring more manipulation (complexity under stress), as well as being slower (1-2 rounds loaded at a time instead of all 5 at once).

Making an informed decision doesn't mean it's one without its own inherent risks and disadvantages, does it?

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

I saw a pic of an 8 shot loader with a model 13 in the "what smith do you trust your life to and does shooting a dog prepare you for two legged creatures.". Anyway, it got me thinking that an 8 shot loader would be easier to manipulate if you loaded it 2 space 1 space 2. Also, it's larger size might also make it easier to load quickly. Discuss......

I use a seven shot speed strip for my six shot S&Ws, and a six shot speed strip for my five shooters. The idea is to increase the gripping surface on the strip.

 

[sipowicz]

Cut your losses and move to four Safariland comp 1's for increased speed simplicity and capacity.

That might work for some, but there is no way I can carry four comp 1 speedloaders and not look like I have tumors on my thighs.

 

[shouldazagged]

That might work for some, but there is no way I can carry four comp 1 speedloaders and not look like I have tumors on my thighs.

"Honey, do these speedloaders make my butt look fat?"

 

[doc84]

I used to carry 6 rounds in my speedstrips, but nowadays I only carry 5 rounds in them. Why? Because I only carry them for 5-shot snubs nowadays. If I carried any of my 6-shot revolvers, I'd either carry my speedloaders, or load that extra (6th) round into speedstrips for use with those 6-rd revolvers.

I've spent many years developing the technique of dropping an empty speedloader to the ground upon finishing reloading my revolver. Simpler to keep the same finishing technique to the loading drill, which is to drop the loading device and return the attention of both my hands to the immediate manipulation of the revolver.

Also, speedstrips/loaders aren't manipulated like spare magazines, meaning with the use of the off-hand.

They're typically manipulated with the strong(gun) hand, meaning the revolver has been shifted to the weak (non-gun) hand while they're being used ... and this means the revolver would remain in the off-hand longer, unavailable for immediate firing ... if the user is trying to "pocket" a partially-loaded strip somewhere back upon their person. Habits can be like that, right?

You really want to do that dance under stress? Drop it (the strip) from your gun hand and get your gun hand, and gun, back into the business at hand.

Now, if someone wants to carry 8-rd speedstrips more for the purpose of conveniently carrying extra rounds on their person, and doesn't minding dropping a partially-loaded speedstrip onto the ground if it's ever used for loading under stress ... and if they can instantly revert, under stress, to dropping the partially loaded strip onto the ground instead of trying to pocket it to conserve the remaining 3 rounds ... then that's their call. Kind of like carrying those older 'ammo wallets', in a way.

I guess you could also consider it a revolver variation of a 'tac load', allowing you to conserve rounds remaining in the partially used speedstrip.

I've just found it's usually easier to streamline some of my training drills by keeping it similar when using either speedloaders or strips, which means being able to drop an empty loader/strip to the ground. It's still going to become evidence, anyway, if ever used in an actual incident.

Think you might need that extra 3 rounds left over in an 8-rd strip? Just carry an extra 5-rd speedstrip. Cuts down on the potential confusion that could become involved in trying to pocket/save a partially-loaded strip.

As far as 'spacing' rounds apart in a strip to try and facilitate the loading of a pair and then a pair-and-a-half? That means you've always got to orient the strips in your pockets so you grab them with the same orientation coming out of your pocket. I've never been that lucky, myself, as some of my pockets have allowed rotation and tumbling of some of the strips.

So ... I stack my 5 rounds in a simple row, no spaces between them, so no matter how they come out of my pockets I'm going to be running them 2x2x1 into my cylinders. No extra time needed to orient the strips. I don't even use the 'tail' of the strips anymore (and I've had a few of them break off over time).

Using a speedstrip in your hand isn't quite the same as grabbing a spaced pair of loose rounds from a pair of belt loops.

"Simple" can help in the development of a deft and smooth execution of technique. Adding extra complexity can create extra opportunities for halting "steps" to occur ... which can take away from "smoothness" at inopportune times. "Smooth" can help make it easier to acquire speed of execution.

Just my thoughts.

Time spent loading and manipulating loading devices is time spent NOT being able to put accurate rounds on-target.

Put your emphasis where you think it ought to be, and then train, train & train some more.

Excellent points Sir.

 

[dugo]

When I carry a 5 shot j frame, I carry a Bianchi speed strip loaded with only 5 rounds.

This is because, when it is time for me to reload, I dump the entire cylinder and fill it completely back up, then drop the speed strip on the ground. I don't want to mess with retaining rounds or rubber strips at any point.

3 spaces on an 8 round strip is a interesting concept though.

Pretty much the same technique, here (load 2-2-1 or 2-2-2, drop the strip). I have also had the tab break off of a speed strip, and if there is not part of the "body" extending past the rounds, it tends to be a bit clumsy to handle. 5 rounds in a six-round strip is better. Am ordering 8-round strips which will house 6 rounds, and I will try using them for 5 rounds, too. (May end up with 7-rounders for 5 rounds.) I am sure the extra "body" will make them easier to manipulate, at least with the grip I use (.. though I'm sure there is nothing unusual in the grip. I think it's the same thing most folks do).

In a pocket, I can see the probability of clumsiness due to the extra length, but I usually carry them on the belt. I use a thin speed strip carrier which wraps around the belt. The carrier is very unobtrusive, and it seems as though it will make no difference having a longer strip.

 

[Fastbolt]

... I have also had the tab break off of a speed strip, and if there is not part of the "body" extending past the rounds, it tends to be a bit clumsy to handle. ...

Yeah, a number of my Speedstrips date from my youth in LE, and this last year I've seen several of them either have the tab break off, or have one or another end of the strips holding case heads crack and release cases. Just getting brittle with age, it seems. Time for new ones.

I found it interesting that as I dumped a couple strips into plastic jars filled with recycled carry ammo put aside for the range, it was easier than I'd expected to hold & manipulate the shorter strips (sans tabs). The missing tab could no longer get in the way of how I gripped a strip, and handling/manipulating the tab-less strip was easier because I didn't have to stop and recognize a "this end has the tab" orientation. I still felt the empty 6th spot, but since it's stiffer than the tab it felt more comfortable.

I think the tab is still handy for grasping & pulling a strip from a tight spot/carrier (like from a dump pouch or from a watch pocket, which I've done), but I adjusted more easily than I'd expected to not having a tab when it came to manipulating and using the strips just grabbed from a more generously sized pocket.

 

[BaaBaa]

Fastbolt has a lot of good comments. My own very limited experience is that I carry 2 8 round speed strips loaded with 5 rounds each because I am carrying a 5 round revolver. My reloading is using the weak hand, I've tried the strong hand reload Masaad Ayoob demonstrates and I am just not as consistently fast with that as I am weak hand. No clue why. Maybe because I am training myself to carry my revolver reloads in the same place as my pistol reloads and although the fine motor skills are different at least I am never fumbling for where my reloads are.

I'd love to be able to carry 2 speedloaders instead, I'm much faster with them (been practicing) but haven't gotten the concealment down pat for them so carry the speed strips for now.

 

[AZretired]

I've been carrying and using Speed Strips since I was a rookie back in 1978. We weren't allowed to use speed loaders ( they didn't go well with out Sam Brownes) so I've had a lot of practice. Nowadays I still carry a revolver, a 642 but sometimes a 64 so I always carry 6 rounds in the speed strips and load two at a time, even at the range, just for the practice.