9mm ammo.

[Grayfox]

I'm a little late on the 9mm bandwagon. Normally in semi-autos I'm a .45 kinda guy. I only have a couple of guns in this caliber, but I'm thinking of adding a 9mm AR to the pile. While I do reload, with 9mm being pretty cheap, I was considering buying a case or two of factory ammo just have on hand. I realize that I'm not really up on this caliber.
Most of what I buy will be FMJ for range use. But I'm also considering stocking up on some JHP for defense.
First question: what weight bullet? I know 115gr is really popular, but I'm kinda leaning toward the 124gr for a little extra oomph. I don't know squat about the 147s as I've never used them.
Second question: what's the difference between 9mm Luger and 9mm Nato? Am I correct to assume the 9mm Nato is loaded a little hotter? Is it hard on the guns? Good or bad to use?

 

[stansdds]

115 grain JHP, especially the +P loads, was popular many years ago, but things change with time. Bullet technology has improved greatly since the 1990's and for the 9mm, the modern 124 and 147 grain JHP's are the darlings of the dance. Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, and Winchester Ranger T-Series are at the top of the list.

As for velocity and operating pressures, +P will put additional stress on the firearm and most of the modern JHP rounds expand faster and to a greater diameter in the +P loads, but the trade off is less penetration. It is my opinion that the standard pressure ammo is fully suitable for most of us and I no longer use +P ammo.

9x19 NATO is loaded to pressure levels slightly more than standard ammo, but less than most +P ammo. 9mm +P is up to 10% higher pressure and velocity than standard 9mm. 9x19 NATO is around 5% higher pressure and velocity than standard 9mm ammo.

 

[Mack]

Well the FBI who can afford to test ammo more than most went with the 147 grain standard velocity.

 

[BAM-BAM]

And remember;....... shot placement is "King" everything else comes in second!

 

[hoc9sw]

"NATO" is normally 123 / 124g.

I use 147g primarily because I sometimes shoot suppressed, and 147g is subsonic, therefore a bit quieter.

I tend to buy as few loads as possible (can't reload for a number of reasons), so if 147 and 115 are priced alike, 147 it is.

But for the range for most days, 115g on sale is the choice.

 

[WR Moore]

It's really hard to compare the NATO pressure spec and the SAAMI +P as they measure pressures in slightly different places/ways. The standard exists due to NATO wide requirements for commonality and the specified penetration at the time of adoption. Having said all that, the two maximum pressures are very close. That doesn't mean any particular lot of ammo will reach that that pressure as the spec requires a specific energy level with bullets between a maximum and minimum weight at a Mean Average Pressure not over the pressure spec.

In short, they're loading to a velocity requirement, not a pressure level. Just like the SAAMI ammo manufacturers. Modern firearms are designed with +P/NATO ammo in mind. Continuous use of the ammo may cause additional wear, but like any mechanical device, you have to do maintenance.

The JHP products of any of the major manufacturers will do fine. The list includes Black Hills, CCI, Federal, Hornaday, Remington and Speer. Due to past QC issues I don't buy Winchester, that's my personal prejudice. There are some new to the markets, like Sig and Browning, they're having their ammo loaded by someone else.

There are numerous threads on this sort of thing you can check for additional information.

I'm not sure what you mean by "oomph", but the energy levels of the 115/124 gr loads are pretty much the same. The 124 does have a slight penetration advantage, which isn't really an issue with ball ammo. Just see what's on sale-but make sure it feeds in your guns before you buy big. The Remington HTP 115 gr +P will feed in anything that will feed RN ball. The Federal 9BP/C9BP will too. The current types of 147 gr are more stout (faster) than the original loads, but I personally don't use them.

 

[RWJ]

Feeding

You may experience feeding issues with a hollow-point bullet on the feed ramp of the Colt AR 9mm platform, which for the life of me, I can't figure why they gave it such a sharp cut off on the entry side. Although it will also depend on mag height and other dimensions, with tolerance stacking it does tend to show up. You might need to go to a more rounded HP profile (think Federal 9BP) if absolute feeding reliability is required.


Based on experience with Colt ARs and Colt SMGs.


FWIW


RWJ

 

[stansdds]

"NATO" is normally 123 / 124g.

I use 147g primarily because I sometimes shoot suppressed, and 147g is subsonic, therefore a bit quieter.

I tend to buy as few loads as possible (can't reload for a number of reasons), so if 147 and 115 are priced alike, 147 it is.

But for the range for most days, 115g on sale is the choice.

Actually, the NATO standards for bullet weight in 9x19 are rather loose. Bullets weights from 108 to 128 grains are acceptable so long as they meet the energy requirements.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Some like the light 115gr JHP for the summer days and then switch to
the 124gr or very heavy 147gr for the cold Winter days when people
tend to wear heavy clothing to keep warm.

With the short barrel 9mm's, a +P is a good idea but with a 4" barrel
todays modern bullets at just standard speeds, will do the job, if
you do not want the added recoil and extra bells and whistles.

Now that you have all this information..............
you need to see if your weapon will like one of these options.

Many think that at least 100 rounds of your intended SD load must WORK
in your weapon, for it to pass it's test.
Then there are some that think that if you can fire three quick shots
w/o a problem your good to go, from a box of 50 rounds.

Good shooting.

 

[hoc9sw]

Actually, the NATO standards for bullet weight in 9x19 are rather loose. Bullets weights from 108 to 128 grains are acceptable so long as they meet the energy requirements.

I'm not a reloader, and only came to 9mm when the docs told me the 45 recoil was killing my shoulder. All of the "NATO" I've seen here was in the 124g range. Sorry if I was less than correct there.

I do tend to avoid "NATO" rounds from old eastern bloc countries, as they tend to use harder primers. I've had more than one brand that I couldn't use in more than one pistol due to constant light strikes. Generated lots of horse-trading before I gave up on them.

 

[coachcash86]

For the range I use mostly Remington UMC in both my 1.0 Shield and 2.0 M&P full size. It’s cheap and dependable. I literally tested 115 vs 124 at the range a couple months back and I was more accurate with the 124. For me, that’s what’s important. I’d rather hit ‘em with a slingshot than miss with a cannonball.

 

[Rock185]

Hello Grayfox, I don't have an AR 9mm, but have had Marlin Camp 9mm carbines and a variety of 9mm pistols and revolvers. Everyone seems to have a favorite type of SD ammo, and I have no argument with most of the suggestions. We have more good choices than ever now days. As to ball/practice/plinking ammo, most of my use in recent years has been the WWB 115 grain, Winchester and IMI 124 grain NATO. In my guns, all seem capable of similar accuracy for me. I've chronographed a lot of 9mm, and the NATO does display a bit more velocity than standard pressure 124 grain. The Winchester NATO displays a bit less velocity than 124+P in my guns, but the IMI NATO gives velocities quite similar to commercial 124 grain +P. I tend to prefer the Win. and IMI NATO over the standard WWB, Rem-UMC,etc. 115 ball due to slightly more energy/velocity and sealed case mouth and primer.......ymmv

BTW, the 147 grain, no matter the manufacturer, seems to be soft shooting and accurate in any of my guns.

 

[ancient-one]

You can find some good online deals on Blazer Brass range ammo. They are reliable and I have never had a problem with them.

 

[rockquarry]

In looking for one ammo to buy in quantity, first get first several boxes, five or six in varying styles and weights. A one-time expense but worth it and you'll find out what shoots best in your gun and what you shoot best.

Test off a benchrest at 25 yards, then shoot offhand. Obviously, you'll be checking for reliable feeding, accuracy, and point of impact. I've found sometimes that the lighter bullets shoot low when fired offhand.

No need to concern yourself with +P, people wearing heavy clothing, or other nonessential and superfluous "what ifs". Consistent hits are far more important.

 

[Execpro]

SGAammo is selling Winchester NATO 124gr (white box with black letters) for $8.95 per 50 round box.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!

 

[chief38]

I am finding that 124 grain Bullets shoots POA = POI in my Sig P365 while the 115 grain shoots an inch - 1.25" low. I also like the fact of using a heavier bullet for SD and so I like to train with the same bullet weight as I carry.

I have not as yet shot any 147 grain ammo but from what I've read, they are moving well below the 1,000 fps velocity I personally favor for SD purposes (especially in short barreled pistols many of us use for CCW). I will get to it one of these days but remember, the FBI tests are conducted with Pistols having longer barrels than most of us use for CCW. That makes a difference!

A THOUGHT TO PONDER: If the FBI hand gun selection process and selection committee is so brilliant, then how come over the course of their history they have changed guns, ammo, calibers more times than any other LE Agency I know of!??

 

[stansdds]

A THOUGHT TO PONDER: If the FBI hand gun selection process and selection committee is so brilliant, then how come over the course of their history they have changed guns, ammo, calibers more times than any other LE Agency I know of!??

The FBI moving away from the 9x19 in the late 1980's was really more of an attempt to make the handgun caliber the scapegoat for what was actually a error in tactics in the 1986 Miami shootout. The FBI went to the 10mm, then helped to develop the reduced power 10mm, then helped to create the 40 S&W so they could have the ballistics of the neutered 10mm in a 9mm sized pistol. Now they have circled back to the 9mm, mostly because it recoils less than the 40 and the magazines hold more rounds.

 

[mfjones54]

Have you tried any of the newer SIG 365 9MM ammunition yet? It is supposedly tailored for the P365 and other short barreled pistols. The reason I ask is, I just picked up a P365 and was wondering if the ammunition was as good as they say.

 

[Univibe]

Get Winchester Q4318 NATO ball. Carry year-round. Use on Thugz as needed. Bullets are bullets.

 

[EMP3]

And remember;....... shot placement is "King" everything else comes in second!

Shot placement is indeed crucial...shot placement of a bad guy shooting at you!!!

Rule One of Gun Fighting: Avoid

Rule Two of Gun Fighting: If Rule One ain't an option, don't get shot!

"King" is remaining vertical. That's why avoidance trumps all.