After reading other thread on this topic I decided that rather than hijack another thread I'd put this up on it's own.
I wrote this up on another site after it happened and it went south over racial issues. I have been reluctant to post up anything further about it but I've been around this place now for just a little while and it seems that everyone in here is mature enough and has enough respect for the rules that there wouldn't be any problems.
Just let me stress that even though the other guy in this event was a black man that the events that unfolded and the actions we both took were not motivated by racial issues. I can guarantee y'all that I certainly had none and I didn't see even the slightest sign that the other guy did either. Both of us assessed the situation and made rational decisions using good judgement. Catastrophe was there by averted.
I ask that y'all keep your responses away from racial issues and comments and I request that if it does happen that the mods pull this entire thread. I only post it because I feel that it is interesting and that it demonstrates that the term "cool heads prevail" has some merit.
It was in the spring about 3 years ago when I was 65 years old. I was pretty involved in photography during that time and had decided to do a "survey" of some of the old abandoned houses along some of the rural roads in Texas. My title for this project was "This Old House" and was to include old abandoned houses, out-houses, churches and barns.
Although Hwy 6 between Houston and Waco has been very recently upgraded and widened it is still rife with many abandoned old structures like I was interested in. I set out that morning with fresh batteries and a new memory card in my digital camera and was making my way north stopping at every opportunity to capture another example of my subject.
I was on a stretch of the highway where the road bed was elevated about 7 or 8 feet above the land in that area. Off to my right I saw an old house that was long abandoned and leaning drastically to one side, looking like it was ready to blow away with the next good wind. I pulled over and got my camera ready and got out of my truck.
I was wearing my Glock 36, a compact .45auto and two spare mags OWB with a loose shirt not tucked in. I'm always very discreet when I carry and I've never been "made" in over 10 years of carrying every day. Sometimes I carry other calibers or other kinds of guns but when I'm on the road I always carry a .45.
I walked around the back of the truck and down the embankment and stopped at the 5 strand barbed wire fence and began taking pictures of the very interesting old house. When I had what I wanted I went back up to the truck and I was sitting on the tail gate reviewing the pictures I'd just taken when I see this guy come scrambling up the embankment. He appeared to be is a great hurry.
I jumped down off the tail gate and moved to the side of my truck. When he got to the top of the embankment he asked me in a somewhat heated voice what I was doing. He continued to approach me and I asked him in as calm a voice as I cold manage, not to come any closer. He stopped and wanted to know what I was doing on his property. I was very nervous and more than a little afraid. I am 5'5" tall and weigh 150 pounds. At the time I was 65 years old. I estimated him to be 6'2" to 6'3" and 220 to 230 pound. 30 to 35 years old. Not that it was a factor he was a black man.
It wasn't a factor for me but I wasn't immediately sure if it was for him or not. As we talked I determined that it was not. When I asked him not to come any closer I reflexively moved my right hand into position to draw if it became necessary. His eyes immediately dropped to my right hip. I was not printing but he may have been able to tell now that he was thinking about it that I was armed. He stopped.
I explained what I was doing and that I never went inside the fence. I never went on his property. He seemed to be thinking that over. He was clean shaven with a neat haircut and dressed in work clothes. He was dirty but explained that he was working on a tractor. He had on a blue T-shirt with a white police badge decal over the right breast.
I nodded my head in acknowledgement but I told him that that was not proper ID. He nodded but did not offer to show me anything further. If I had to guess I'd guess that he actually was an off duty police officer. His appearance, calm professional kind of behavior seemed to indicate to me that he was.
I held my camera out and set it down on the tail gate and took a few steps backward. I invited him to examine my camera and told him how to toggle through all the pics that I'd been taking. He stood there for what seemed at the time like a very long moment. I could see the decision making process going on in his eyes. I guess he decided to accept my story and with out another word he turned around and went back down the way he'd come up and disappeared.
I sat in my truck for 15 minutes trying to calm down and reassessing the events that had just happened. If either one of us had lost our cool it would have been awful. But we gave each other a chance and it worked out.
In CHL classes we are told that 21' is as close as you should let a potential attacker get. Inside that, they say, you can not pull and fire before your attacker can reach you and cut/stab/assault you. This guy stopped at what I figured was not quite 20'.
Thinking about the way it might have gone if he'd rushed me and I'd shot him, I'd have been covered even if he'd actually been a LEO. The law makes provision for disparity in size and physical condition. Given the facts that he was twice my size and half my age, and the fact that my hands are so effected by arthritis as to render me unable to fight I would have been justified to pull and fire even if he had no weapon. I could not afford to let a guy that big and strong hit me in the head. It could easily be fatal or at least leave me permanently impaired. I had made the decision and the commitment to pull and fire if he hadn't stopped when and where he did. I was totally focused.
As a Vietnam vet I know what it's like to exchange gunfire with another human being. I've never been shot but I have seen the results up close and personal of the after effects of a fire fight. The instructors in CHL classes are not telling Noah about the flood in my case when they tell you how you will feel later if you have to shoot. Believe me....There are no mysteries for me in this. I have no desire to shoot ANYone for ANY reason. I don't think it'd be cool or make me tough or any of the movie guff that is so prevalent. I'd never shoot someone over a tv or a vehicle, that's what insurance of for. Only to save my life of the life of another.
Every time I think about this situation I am thankful that everyone involved kept their cool. I hope that this story will impress at least one person and help them to remain calm and focused in a potentially bad situation. When it happens to you it will be too late to have to figure out what to do.
I wrote this up on another site after it happened and it went south over racial issues. I have been reluctant to post up anything further about it but I've been around this place now for just a little while and it seems that everyone in here is mature enough and has enough respect for the rules that there wouldn't be any problems.
Just let me stress that even though the other guy in this event was a black man that the events that unfolded and the actions we both took were not motivated by racial issues. I can guarantee y'all that I certainly had none and I didn't see even the slightest sign that the other guy did either. Both of us assessed the situation and made rational decisions using good judgement. Catastrophe was there by averted.
I ask that y'all keep your responses away from racial issues and comments and I request that if it does happen that the mods pull this entire thread. I only post it because I feel that it is interesting and that it demonstrates that the term "cool heads prevail" has some merit.
It was in the spring about 3 years ago when I was 65 years old. I was pretty involved in photography during that time and had decided to do a "survey" of some of the old abandoned houses along some of the rural roads in Texas. My title for this project was "This Old House" and was to include old abandoned houses, out-houses, churches and barns.
Although Hwy 6 between Houston and Waco has been very recently upgraded and widened it is still rife with many abandoned old structures like I was interested in. I set out that morning with fresh batteries and a new memory card in my digital camera and was making my way north stopping at every opportunity to capture another example of my subject.
I was on a stretch of the highway where the road bed was elevated about 7 or 8 feet above the land in that area. Off to my right I saw an old house that was long abandoned and leaning drastically to one side, looking like it was ready to blow away with the next good wind. I pulled over and got my camera ready and got out of my truck.
I was wearing my Glock 36, a compact .45auto and two spare mags OWB with a loose shirt not tucked in. I'm always very discreet when I carry and I've never been "made" in over 10 years of carrying every day. Sometimes I carry other calibers or other kinds of guns but when I'm on the road I always carry a .45.
I walked around the back of the truck and down the embankment and stopped at the 5 strand barbed wire fence and began taking pictures of the very interesting old house. When I had what I wanted I went back up to the truck and I was sitting on the tail gate reviewing the pictures I'd just taken when I see this guy come scrambling up the embankment. He appeared to be is a great hurry.
I jumped down off the tail gate and moved to the side of my truck. When he got to the top of the embankment he asked me in a somewhat heated voice what I was doing. He continued to approach me and I asked him in as calm a voice as I cold manage, not to come any closer. He stopped and wanted to know what I was doing on his property. I was very nervous and more than a little afraid. I am 5'5" tall and weigh 150 pounds. At the time I was 65 years old. I estimated him to be 6'2" to 6'3" and 220 to 230 pound. 30 to 35 years old. Not that it was a factor he was a black man.
It wasn't a factor for me but I wasn't immediately sure if it was for him or not. As we talked I determined that it was not. When I asked him not to come any closer I reflexively moved my right hand into position to draw if it became necessary. His eyes immediately dropped to my right hip. I was not printing but he may have been able to tell now that he was thinking about it that I was armed. He stopped.
I explained what I was doing and that I never went inside the fence. I never went on his property. He seemed to be thinking that over. He was clean shaven with a neat haircut and dressed in work clothes. He was dirty but explained that he was working on a tractor. He had on a blue T-shirt with a white police badge decal over the right breast.
I nodded my head in acknowledgement but I told him that that was not proper ID. He nodded but did not offer to show me anything further. If I had to guess I'd guess that he actually was an off duty police officer. His appearance, calm professional kind of behavior seemed to indicate to me that he was.
I held my camera out and set it down on the tail gate and took a few steps backward. I invited him to examine my camera and told him how to toggle through all the pics that I'd been taking. He stood there for what seemed at the time like a very long moment. I could see the decision making process going on in his eyes. I guess he decided to accept my story and with out another word he turned around and went back down the way he'd come up and disappeared.
I sat in my truck for 15 minutes trying to calm down and reassessing the events that had just happened. If either one of us had lost our cool it would have been awful. But we gave each other a chance and it worked out.
In CHL classes we are told that 21' is as close as you should let a potential attacker get. Inside that, they say, you can not pull and fire before your attacker can reach you and cut/stab/assault you. This guy stopped at what I figured was not quite 20'.
Thinking about the way it might have gone if he'd rushed me and I'd shot him, I'd have been covered even if he'd actually been a LEO. The law makes provision for disparity in size and physical condition. Given the facts that he was twice my size and half my age, and the fact that my hands are so effected by arthritis as to render me unable to fight I would have been justified to pull and fire even if he had no weapon. I could not afford to let a guy that big and strong hit me in the head. It could easily be fatal or at least leave me permanently impaired. I had made the decision and the commitment to pull and fire if he hadn't stopped when and where he did. I was totally focused.
As a Vietnam vet I know what it's like to exchange gunfire with another human being. I've never been shot but I have seen the results up close and personal of the after effects of a fire fight. The instructors in CHL classes are not telling Noah about the flood in my case when they tell you how you will feel later if you have to shoot. Believe me....There are no mysteries for me in this. I have no desire to shoot ANYone for ANY reason. I don't think it'd be cool or make me tough or any of the movie guff that is so prevalent. I'd never shoot someone over a tv or a vehicle, that's what insurance of for. Only to save my life of the life of another.
Every time I think about this situation I am thankful that everyone involved kept their cool. I hope that this story will impress at least one person and help them to remain calm and focused in a potentially bad situation. When it happens to you it will be too late to have to figure out what to do.
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