A quick question about the 645
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Kavinsky
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It's one of those things that you hear has a tendancy to screw up a good trigger, specifically on the browning high power but on the smith's since its never caused my father any trouble with his pre dash steel framed 39 and the trigger seems good on it (not M29-2 good mind you, but good nonetheless) I'm not really bothered by this fact.
however considering what happened to my beretta 85 when I was practicing loading an empty magazine into it with a snap cap in place of a live round I'll never buy a berreta with that ever again!
the trigger spring got bound up somehow and when I removed the magazine it snapped and the entire trigger went slack on me (and it was a noticbile snap too) and here's the clincher my gunsmith said this was the second one he worked on that had exactly the same thing happen to it.
So as soon as that things fixed its getting traded in on a Walther PP or a Sig 230, probably the walther.
however considering what happened to my beretta 85 when I was practicing loading an empty magazine into it with a snap cap in place of a live round I'll never buy a berreta with that ever again!
the trigger spring got bound up somehow and when I removed the magazine it snapped and the entire trigger went slack on me (and it was a noticbile snap too) and here's the clincher my gunsmith said this was the second one he worked on that had exactly the same thing happen to it.
So as soon as that things fixed its getting traded in on a Walther PP or a Sig 230, probably the walther.
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The right hand safety lever on the 645 was the only "problem" with the pistol that I've ever experienced or heard of.
Early 645's came with the safety/decocker paddle/lever attached by a phillips head screw. It would come loose - constantly - while shooting - resulting in a missing paddle.
The solution from S&W was a hex head screw. Same problem - it came loose. Yes, some simply used locktite and forgot about it.
Others, retrofitted the improved 3rd generation ambi safety on their early production 645's. Thats the route I went. Looks better to, to me. No more worries about losing the paddle either. Regards 18DAI.
Early 645's came with the safety/decocker paddle/lever attached by a phillips head screw. It would come loose - constantly - while shooting - resulting in a missing paddle.
The solution from S&W was a hex head screw. Same problem - it came loose. Yes, some simply used locktite and forgot about it.
Others, retrofitted the improved 3rd generation ambi safety on their early production 645's. Thats the route I went. Looks better to, to me. No more worries about losing the paddle either. Regards 18DAI.
Kavinsky said:
The model 39's magazine disconnect safety continues unchanged through 3rd generation production and trouble free
for about 65 years. Removing it would not change the trigger pull. In my experience, 645s and 4506s will reliably feed sharp corned simi-wadcutters that 1911 based autos choke on. Like 18DAI wrote, Locktite the off side safety paddle screw or replace the whole safety barrel assembly and they're about as trouble free a .45 as you can buy. They didn't fall out of favor because they didn't work, but rather due to their size, weight, relatively low magazine capacity, DA/SA trigger system and especially their cost. If you like a big soft recoiling .45 and get along with the DA/SA system then they're a good value in the used .45 market.
squidsix
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I would say that the 4506 and 645 are very nice service pistols, and the 645 has an altogether different feel than the 4506. I actually prefer it. I bought one years and years ago, and sold it foolishly.
Mine was a driver's-side-safety only, with a safety assembly from the 457 pistol in it. This was a nice way to solve the problem of the passenger's-side-lever coming off. It wasn't there to begin with.
Mine was a driver's-side-safety only, with a safety assembly from the 457 pistol in it. This was a nice way to solve the problem of the passenger's-side-lever coming off. It wasn't there to begin with.
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Kavinsky
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Indeed actually theres one on gunbroker right now that's missing the right side lever:
Smith & Wesson Model 645 45ACP w/Xtra's : Semi-auto at GunBroker.com
So I guess the first thing I should do once I get one is just blue locktight the damn thing, I want to shoot it for awhile before I look into changing it to the 4506 one along with the other things I mentioned in the other 645 thread
K22 "for about 65 years."
65 years? why that number? A humans average lifespan?
Honestly I don't care about why this or that fell out of favor, one mans loss is my gain in the 645's case and hell 20 or 30 odd years from now when smith is only making M and P glock type semi autos the price will probably tripple for a proper all steel gun.
squid why did you sell in the first place?
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squidsix
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Because I'm a daft bugger.
I immediately regretted it. (I bought a 4506 to replace it, and a week later a 4566)
I am shopping now for a 4516 and a 645 or 745 (single action might be interesting) and some more mags/holsters for them. I now only have a 4566 and 4506 in the .45ACP group.
I immediately regretted it. (I bought a 4506 to replace it, and a week later a 4566)
I am shopping now for a 4516 and a 645 or 745 (single action might be interesting) and some more mags/holsters for them. I now only have a 4566 and 4506 in the .45ACP group.
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Kavinsky
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Seems like alot of people who went from a 645 to a 4506 regretted it, probably because of the design of the frame and the feel of it vs the 4506's smooth looking frame.
and why are you switching guns so much? that seems like a lot of guns to go through in a few weeks
at most I buy a new one about 6 - 8 months down the line and typically hold onto it probably because I stress the moto always do your research as much as possibile.
and why are you switching guns so much? that seems like a lot of guns to go through in a few weeks
at most I buy a new one about 6 - 8 months down the line and typically hold onto it probably because I stress the moto always do your research as much as possibile.
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My 645 (bought it in '87) still has the phillips head screw in it and I have never had a problem with it loosening or especially falling off.
I have shot many thousands of rounds through it over the years with no problems.
Mine does not fire without the magazine in it. I agree that the mag safety is good when open carrying. As an open carrying LEO or citizen and therefore being a "walking gun rack" as an LEO friend described himself as being, every safety to counter someone who has taken your sidearm is a good one.
I agree the 4506 "detent" fastener looks a little better but I just never really had a reason to change it.
I am glad I kept the 645 and didn't "upgrade" to 4506. I am starting to carry the 645 again now that I found a Blackhawk Serpa holster to fit it. (The Serpa for the Sig P226 works well if a little short.)
I have shot many thousands of rounds through it over the years with no problems.
Mine does not fire without the magazine in it. I agree that the mag safety is good when open carrying. As an open carrying LEO or citizen and therefore being a "walking gun rack" as an LEO friend described himself as being, every safety to counter someone who has taken your sidearm is a good one.
I agree the 4506 "detent" fastener looks a little better but I just never really had a reason to change it.
I am glad I kept the 645 and didn't "upgrade" to 4506. I am starting to carry the 645 again now that I found a Blackhawk Serpa holster to fit it. (The Serpa for the Sig P226 works well if a little short.)
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I own examples of both the 645 and 4506, as well as 4506-1. I like all three models.
I would agree with squidsix, the 645 feels different from the 4506 and to me, better. Feels a little thinner, points a little more naturally, fills the hand better with Pachmyar grips and the checkered front and back straps.
I'm currently still qualified on my 645. Shot a 98 day and 96 night with it. Accurate, reliable and looks good doing all that.
While my 4566 is my regular duty carry, the 645 still goes out with me regularly. If not in the holster, than in the console.
I love my 4506's too and don't regret buying them at all, but there is just something about the 645.......especially with a model 6452 Novak sight equipped top end. Thanks again Model39!
Regards 18DAI.
I would agree with squidsix, the 645 feels different from the 4506 and to me, better. Feels a little thinner, points a little more naturally, fills the hand better with Pachmyar grips and the checkered front and back straps.
I'm currently still qualified on my 645. Shot a 98 day and 96 night with it. Accurate, reliable and looks good doing all that.
While my 4566 is my regular duty carry, the 645 still goes out with me regularly. If not in the holster, than in the console.
I love my 4506's too and don't regret buying them at all, but there is just something about the 645.......especially with a model 6452 Novak sight equipped top end. Thanks again Model39!
Regards 18DAI.
2K7
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All these S&W's are capable of firing with the magazine out, magazine safety or not.
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Kavinsky
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from what I understand the holster in particular makes all the difference in the world when carrying a larger caliber gun, if its not comfortabile your just not going to be carrying it.
and I dont mean that in the sense that I'd carry the thing bogart style to begin with I'm just saying finding a holster that fits you, can handle the weight and distribute it to your body without bothering you is probably just as key as the gun your choosing to protect your life with.
? its a magazine disconnect even if theres a round in the chamber if the magazines out its not going to go off, or atleast I think that's the purpose of it.
are you talking about a particular model of Novak sights or a smith and wesson equiped with Novak sights?I love my 4506's too and don't regret buying them at all, but there is just something about the 645.......especially with a model 6452 Novak sight equipped top end. Thanks again Model39!
so basically the 645 just feels better in your hand but both guns are great and that thing you mentioned about the 4506's trigger being a little bit more redefined.
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2K7
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QUOTE
? its a magazine disconnect even if theres a round in the chamber if the magazines out its not going to go off, or atleast I think that's the purpose of it.
Think a Smith & Wesson semi-auto equipped with a magazine safety will not fire with the mag out?
An old trick - if you stage the trigger (apply a slight amount of rearward pressure on the trigger), hold it and drop the mag with the other hand, the S&W's will then fire the round in the chamber should the need arise with the mag out. Allows you one more shot just in case you are in the middle of a reload when it suddenly become apparent you need to shoot....NOW!
*Since you are rushing to your gun safe right now to try this..don't forget to make sure its UNLOADED!!!
? its a magazine disconnect even if theres a round in the chamber if the magazines out its not going to go off, or atleast I think that's the purpose of it.
Think a Smith & Wesson semi-auto equipped with a magazine safety will not fire with the mag out?
An old trick - if you stage the trigger (apply a slight amount of rearward pressure on the trigger), hold it and drop the mag with the other hand, the S&W's will then fire the round in the chamber should the need arise with the mag out. Allows you one more shot just in case you are in the middle of a reload when it suddenly become apparent you need to shoot....NOW!
*Since you are rushing to your gun safe right now to try this..don't forget to make sure its UNLOADED!!!
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Kavinsky
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Hmm maybe that's what broke the beretta, I think I did put tension on the trigger when I dropped the mag out and then I heard the snap, plus in the middle of said situation wouldnt it be in single action mode to begin with?
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Yes. The 4506-1's trigger is better in DA than my 645. The only two things I've been debating changing on my 645 are the trigger and having the trigger guard/front strap relieved.
Novaks in Parkersburg WV does both mods on 2nd generation S&W's.
There was a member here who knew a great deal about 645s. He had 78,000 rounds through one of his 645's. IIRC he stated that the late production 645's - the ones right before the transition model 6451, 6452 and 6453 - had a different trigger geometry.....possibly a different drawbar too.......I can't recall....but he said that if you sent your early 645 into S&W they would modify it with the later trigger - which greatly shortened the DA pull.
I'm going on my not so great memory here, and it was several years ago, so take what I've told you with a shaker of salt.
While my 645s DA pull is very long, it is very smooth. I don't consider it a handicap - in fact, I consider the long smooth DA pull an asset on a duty pistol. The SA pull is as short and crisp as my Colt 1911s.
The 4506-1's I own have shorter smooth DA pulls. I can shoot them slightly faster out of a holster.....thats about the only difference. I can't see any difference in accuracy between the 645 and the 4506/4506-1. Mine are all tack driving accurate.
In fact, being an old revolver guy I will say that my 645/4506/4506-1's are as accurate as my model 19/66 revolvers. At 10 yards I can print 5 round cloverleafs on the quater size Shoot-N-See bullet hole patches with my 4" 66-2. I can do the same with my 645 and 4506's.......except the Shoot-N-See gets blown away and there is just a quater sized hole left in the paper.
The slide I currently have on my 645 is a late production transition slide I purchased from a very kind member here. I think it is from a 6452 or 6453. It has factory installed Novak low mount three dot sights on it. Looks great on the pistol, to me. Regards 18DAI.
Novaks in Parkersburg WV does both mods on 2nd generation S&W's.
There was a member here who knew a great deal about 645s. He had 78,000 rounds through one of his 645's. IIRC he stated that the late production 645's - the ones right before the transition model 6451, 6452 and 6453 - had a different trigger geometry.....possibly a different drawbar too.......I can't recall....but he said that if you sent your early 645 into S&W they would modify it with the later trigger - which greatly shortened the DA pull.
I'm going on my not so great memory here, and it was several years ago, so take what I've told you with a shaker of salt.
While my 645s DA pull is very long, it is very smooth. I don't consider it a handicap - in fact, I consider the long smooth DA pull an asset on a duty pistol. The SA pull is as short and crisp as my Colt 1911s.
The 4506-1's I own have shorter smooth DA pulls. I can shoot them slightly faster out of a holster.....thats about the only difference. I can't see any difference in accuracy between the 645 and the 4506/4506-1. Mine are all tack driving accurate.
In fact, being an old revolver guy I will say that my 645/4506/4506-1's are as accurate as my model 19/66 revolvers. At 10 yards I can print 5 round cloverleafs on the quater size Shoot-N-See bullet hole patches with my 4" 66-2. I can do the same with my 645 and 4506's.......except the Shoot-N-See gets blown away and there is just a quater sized hole left in the paper.
The slide I currently have on my 645 is a late production transition slide I purchased from a very kind member here. I think it is from a 6452 or 6453. It has factory installed Novak low mount three dot sights on it. Looks great on the pistol, to me.
Regards 18DAI.Similar threads
