Absolute or Lower 1/3 Co-witness?

PeglegJones

PeglegJones

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What are the advantages&disadvantages of each.

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PeglegJones said:
What are the advantages&disadvantages of each.

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Going to be personal preference really... but the advantage of lower 1/3 is the sight picture while using the dot is cleaner. Comes into play more when using the micro dot type sights that have a smaller diameter tube. Advantage to absolute co-witness is that you use the same cheek weld with the red dot as you do the sights. No need to look over the top of the sights like you do with lower 1/3. This really comes more into play when you have fixed sights, or you keep the flip ups raised all the time.
 
What he said. I like the absolute because when I do use open sights, I have a more full picture. But I'm shooting in my backyard at targets or steel and in by no means any tactical situation that has any more thought about it than what I just mentioned.
 
I like lower 1/3. If you are co-witnessed, most of the time you are using your dot so the lower 1/3 gives you the most uncluttered and open field of view when using that dot. It just makes the most sense to give you the best sight picture with the optic you use the majority of the time.

Regarding cheek weld, the beauty of the red dot is you don't need a consistent cheek weld. Quick acquisition and put the red dot on target and pull the trigger.
 
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A lot of guys with an A2 front sight prefer the lower 1/3 which keeps the dot above the post when looking through the center of the tube and a less obstructed view through the tube, particularly with the small micro tubes.

I rarely have my folding sights flipped up, but I prefer the lower 1/3 because it gives me a little more room to work with cheekweld that I generally find cramped wearing hearing protection.
 
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Kadonny said:
Regarding cheek weld, the beauty of the red dot is you don't need a consistent cheek weld. Quick acquisition and put the red dot on target and pull the trigger.
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This is true, to a point. When using the red dot as designed, consistent cheek weld is not as important... however, for those who are trying to use the top edge of the dot for precision shooting, consistent cheek weld will help that. And with the less expensive red dots, I have found that the closer to the center of the scope you keep the dot, the more "accurate" it is.
 
I prefer absolute and I also like A2 front sights. The combination gives me a sight picture I find reminiscent of the concentric circles of a set of front and rear target sights.
 
MichiganScott said:
I prefer absolute and I also like A2 front sights. The combination gives me a sight picture I find reminiscent of the concentric circles of a set of front and rear target sights.
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I have to agree with you there Sir. ;)
 
This may depend somewhat on your intended use. In LE I always preferred to have the back-up irons in the lower portion of my Aimpoint T-1 when I utilized them. In this manner when covering/targeting a bad guy, with the red dot placed center mass, or in the cranium area for a high-percentage shot, the sights normally did not obscure my view of his hands/area of his waist.

If you have absolute co-witness, the front sight, rear sight, and red dot afford you less of an open view of the perp.

As an aside, I run a fold down front sight on my work carbine and prefer to view only the red dot. The front sight/rear sight/red dot field of view always seemed too "busy" for me.

This works for me. YMMV.

JPJ

P.S. With the Aimpoint family of red dot sights, parallax is a non-issue. Put the dot on the target, press the trigger to the rear, repeat as necessary.
 
Absolute co-witness. Two reasons I think it's better:
1. Lower height over bore. This gives you a flatter trajectory.
2. No difference in sight height. This makes it more natural should you need the irons.

Now, I don't have a fixed front sight on any of my rifles. If I did, I might go with a lower 1/3, but I'd also probably switch out the front sight.
 
Rastoff said:
Absolute co-witness. Two reasons I think it's better:
1. Lower height over bore. This gives you a flatter trajectory.
Click to expand...

No trajectory difference with a red dot sight.

My irons are set to 50 yd zero.
My red dot has a lower 1/3 riser and set to 50yd zero.

When I look through the rear aperture of my irons, the red dot is exactly on the front sight post just like it would be with an absolute co-witness riser. The only difference is the irons and red dot are in the lower third of the red dot tube. See the Absolute and Lower 1/3 illustrations as looking through the rear aperture (left at right illustrations ).

Using a lower 1/3 riser allows me to look over the irons through the center of the red dot tube and of course the red dot will appear above the irons (center illustration), but that's not changing sight over bore for trajectory concerns, and the dot remains on target.

Here's an illustration.

 
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It seems like may people forget that you can keep the front cover closed and use both eyes open. Try it.
It is personal preference and I wouldn't take too seriously.
 
Scotiapilot said:
It seems like may people forget that you can keep the front cover closed and use both eyes open. Try it.
It is personal preference and I wouldn't take too seriously.
Click to expand...

I give up. How do you keep the front sight cover closed and hit anything? Seems like that would not only obstruct the dot, but also the irons.
 
MichiganScott said:
I give up. How do you keep the front sight cover closed and hit anything? Seems like that would not only obstruct the dot, but also the irons.
Click to expand...
I encourage you to practice, watch videos.
Yes, red dots are and can be used eyes both open. Typically non magnified red dots are designed to do this. Your other open eye will super impose the red dot on the target. Aimpoints are designed this way. It is actually the idea of the red dot.
I use aimpoint the aimpoint pro for business and competition.

Cowitness is used for typically for LEO use so that you can always make sure your rifle has at least one set of functioning sights. You never have to worry if your duty weapon has been damaged after a period of time in the trunk or just getting beat around.

After you zero your red dot you will likely NEVER use your rear iron sight. But almost always when I open up my case for comp use I flip up the rear to make sure both are congruent then I put it down.

BUT Yes you can use the sight with front cover down both eyes open. It is absolutely designed for that. This is why Aimpoint have a clear rear cover. Its amazing to do.
 
One more thing, when you zero a red dot you must always remember the that LOS has nothing to do with bullet trajectory and depending on where you zero, I use 25yds which means I am zeroed at 300 and that if I am shootin target between those yardages I have to "holdover" appropriately with the 2MOA dot co compensate for bullet rise. sometimes as much a 6inches over at 170 yards where he bullet is at it peak arch.
 
Rastoff said:
Absolute co-witness. Two reasons I think it's better:
1. Lower height over bore. This gives you a flatter trajectory.
2. No difference in sight height. This makes it more natural should you need the irons.

Now, I don't have a fixed front sight on any of my rifles. If I did, I might go with a lower 1/3, but I'd also probably switch out the front sight.
Click to expand...


Ditto..... I like my ''back up" iron sights folded out of the way if not needed.

FWIW.... when I get my rifle out I'll flip up my sights ....too check my dot......if it's not sitting on top of the front sight I might have a problem.
 
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Scotiapilot said:
I encourage you to practice, watch videos.
Yes, red dots are and can be used eyes both open. Typically non magnified red dots are designed to do this. Your other open eye will super impose the red dot on the target. Aimpoints are designed this way. It is actually the idea of the red dot.
I use aimpoint the aimpoint pro for business and competition.

Cowitness is used for typically for LEO use so that you can always make sure your rifle has at least one set of functioning sights. You never have to worry if your duty weapon has been damaged after a period of time in the trunk or just getting beat around.

After you zero your red dot you will likely NEVER use your rear iron sight. But almost always when I open up my case for comp use I flip up the rear to make sure both are congruent then I put it down.

BUT Yes you can use the sight with front cover down both eyes open. It is absolutely designed for that. This is why Aimpoint have a clear rear cover. Its amazing to do.
Click to expand...

I use my dots with both eyes open when I'm trying to shoot fast. I just had no idea you could use them without being able to see through them. I'll try it next time I'm at the range.
 
cyphertext said:
This is true, to a point. When using the red dot as designed, consistent cheek weld is not as important... however, for those who are trying to use the top edge of the dot for precision shooting, consistent cheek weld will help that. And with the less expensive red dots, I have found that the closer to the center of the scope you keep the dot, the more "accurate" it is.
Click to expand...

If you want precision shooting, the red dot is not the tool. Just sayin.
 
Scotiapilot said:
I encourage you to practice, watch videos.
Yes, red dots are and can be used eyes both open. Typically non magnified red dots are designed to do this. Your other open eye will super impose the red dot on the target. Aimpoints are designed this way. It is actually the idea of the red dot.
I use aimpoint the aimpoint pro for business and competition.

Cowitness is used for typically for LEO use so that you can always make sure your rifle has at least one set of functioning sights. You never have to worry if your duty weapon has been damaged after a period of time in the trunk or just getting beat around.

After you zero your red dot you will likely NEVER use your rear iron sight. But almost always when I open up my case for comp use I flip up the rear to make sure both are congruent then I put it down.

BUT Yes you can use the sight with front cover down both eyes open. It is absolutely designed for that. This is why Aimpoint have a clear rear cover. Its amazing to do.
Click to expand...

I call BS on this. I use my red dots like they are designed to be used, with the covers open! I do use them with both eyes open and they work as designed.
 
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