Accessory advice for a 460 mag outdoor carry ...

[_CrazyCooter_]

I live in a small, SouthEast Alaska town without a gunsmith and limited shopping outlets and I am trying to decide about a couple of modifications/accessories for a S&W 460 V magnum. I chose the 460 for several reasons (1) I can train at the 45 LC ammo price and carry 460 magnum (e.g. 360 gr Buffalo Bore hard cast that are almost 2k fps or 395 gr Cor Bon hard cast that are 1.5k fps - either of which will get the job done), (2) it is a revolver and is essentially point and shoot simple, and (3) it is small enough to carry at all times when I am out and about and consequently there when I need it.

I am a lefty who hikes and prospects in mostly black, but some brown, bear territory. I use a Simply Rugged sourdough pancake holster / belt / speed loader pouch and a 5 Star Firearms speedloader and I have found them to be outstanding in quality, usefulness, and mobility (i.e. I can hike and hump a pan in a creek for a good part of the day and it isn't a problem). I am a bigger guy (well over six foot) so other guys might feel different. I also got a LazerLyte Pistol Trainer for draw and dry fire practice at home.

I don't have a lot of technical firearm experience and I found most of these products by references on these forums and found the community very helpful, so I thought this might be a good place to ask because what I really need are some informed opinions.

Recently I shot (for the first time) a revolver with a fiber optic front sight and now I don't know how I lived with out it. My sight is still good, but I am getting older and I could absolutely see a difference in accuracy just because of how well the sights worked.

So, my first question is what kind of replacement sights should I looking at, at least from a "part number" or "part style" perspective? Opinion on just front or front and back replacement? Opinion on manufacturer? Are these replaceable at home or do I really need to get someone to swap them? These will go in a holster and get used, so this isn't a range candy solution - I need something that is usable and durable and also works.

Another problem I have run into is the rubber grips in the field - they trap my shirt and because of the nature of the material it is a real issue with drawing quickly. I have tried and tried to practice draw at home and eliminate the shirt problem and I don't think I can get around it. The reality is *if* I need to draw, I will likely be sweaty, wearing a wool shirt (if not a coat) and face down in a creek wearing waders as well.

I think wood grips would allow my shirt material to separate easier from between my hand and the wood when I draw and punch out to aim. I could live with wood grips because I train with 45 LC at the range. I saw the epic x frame grips thread, but I was confused when I couldn't find the same style grips (i.e. wood over the backstrap like the factory Hogue rubber grips). Should I just grab some three finger groove Hogue round but K frame grips? I have large hands (can palm a basketball) so the larger grip the better? Again I am looking for function in the field (and if I have to bang one off in the field I will need to draw, punch out clearing any shirt/coat/rain gear material, aim, and still hold on to that sucker).

Another issue I am wresting with is an Eberlestock Halftrack that I use for gear and what not, but the hip belt rides over my holster rig. I didn't do a good job researching that and realized it after I got the pack - but I love the pack so I kept it. Thinking about it, I think I would have to move my holster as all backpack hip belts are going to ride on the hips, so I was curious if anyone has experience with molyweb type attachments for holsters. The halftrack has molyweb on the hip belt, so with the right accessory, I could rig up my sourdough pancake holster in its cross draw configuration which would be ideal, but it wouldn't use a belt - it would need some kind of molyweb thing. Anyone see any kind of products out there for that?

Lastly, just for SnG, anyone feel that the 360gr round is better/worse than the 395gr round? The trade off is mass vs velocity. Side by side, the rounds look almost identical, but the 395gr has a slightly broader face/meplat.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I haven't been able to resolve these questions to my own satisfaction, despite a fair bit of digging around on the internet. Maybe the folks here have some insight they don't mind sharing.

Regards,

_CrazyCooter_

 

[sandmansans]

I live in a small, SouthEast Alaska town without a gunsmith and limited shopping outlets and I am trying to decide about a couple of modifications/accessories for a S&W 460 V magnum. I chose the 460 for several reasons (1) I can train at the 45 LC ammo price and carry 460 magnum (e.g. 360 gr Buffalo Bore hard cast that are almost 2k fps or 395 gr Cor Bon hard cast that are 1.5k fps - either of which will get the job done), (2) it is a revolver and is essentially point and shoot simple, and (3) it is small enough to carry at all times when I am out and about and consequently there when I need it.

I am a lefty who hikes and prospects in mostly black, but some brown, bear territory. I use a Simply Rugged sourdough pancake holster / belt / speed loader pouch and a 5 Star Firearms speedloader and I have found them to be outstanding in quality, usefulness, and mobility (i.e. I can hike and hump a pan in a creek for a good part of the day and it isn't a problem). I am a bigger guy (well over six foot) so other guys might feel different. I also got a LazerLyte Pistol Trainer for draw and dry fire practice at home.

I don't have a lot of technical firearm experience and I found most of these products by references on these forums and found the community very helpful, so I thought this might be a good place to ask because what I really need are some informed opinions.

Recently I shot (for the first time) a revolver with a fiber optic front sight and now I don't know how I lived with out it. My sight is still good, but I am getting older and I could absolutely see a difference in accuracy just because of how well the sights worked.

So, my first question is what kind of replacement sights should I looking at, at least from a "part number" or "part style" perspective? Opinion on just front or front and back replacement? Opinion on manufacturer? Are these replaceable at home or do I really need to get someone to swap them? These will go in a holster and get used, so this isn't a range candy solution - I need something that is usable and durable and also works.

Another problem I have run into is the rubber grips in the field - they trap my shirt and because of the nature of the material it is a real issue with drawing quickly. I have tried and tried to practice draw at home and eliminate the shirt problem and I don't think I can get around it. The reality is *if* I need to draw, I will likely be sweaty, wearing a wool shirt (if not a coat) and face down in a creek wearing waders as well.

I think wood grips would allow my shirt material to separate easier from between my hand and the wood when I draw and punch out to aim. I could live with wood grips because I train with 45 LC at the range. I saw the epic x frame grips thread, but I was confused when I couldn't find the same style grips (i.e. wood over the backstrap like the factory Hogue rubber grips). Should I just grab some three finger groove Hogue round but K frame grips? I have large hands (can palm a basketball) so the larger grip the better? Again I am looking for function in the field (and if I have to bang one off in the field I will need to draw, punch out clearing any shirt/coat/rain gear material, aim, and still hold on to that sucker).

Another issue I am wresting with is an Eberlestock Halftrack that I use for gear and what not, but the hip belt rides over my holster rig. I didn't do a good job researching that and realized it after I got the pack - but I love the pack so I kept it. Thinking about it, I think I would have to move my holster as all backpack hip belts are going to ride on the hips, so I was curious if anyone has experience with molyweb type attachments for holsters. The halftrack has molyweb on the hip belt, so with the right accessory, I could rig up my sourdough pancake holster in its cross draw configuration which would be ideal, but it wouldn't use a belt - it would need some kind of molyweb thing. Anyone see any kind of products out there for that?

Lastly, just for SnG, anyone feel that the 360gr round is better/worse than the 395gr round? The trade off is mass vs velocity. Side by side, the rounds look almost identical, but the 395gr has a slightly broader face/meplat.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I haven't been able to resolve these questions to my own satisfaction, despite a fair bit of digging around on the internet. Maybe the folks here have some insight they don't mind sharing.

Regards,

_CrazyCooter_

Hey crazy coot, don't know enough about sights and that to help you but can offer advice on the carry. Have you thought about a chest rig? I got one for my .500 and it's great. I too am a big guy and carrying across the chest feels very comfortable. I personally got the terminator holster made by desantis. Lol everyone loves it, a sight to see.

Regards,

 

[_CrazyCooter_]

I own, have used in the field, and am completely satisfied with everything I linked as I own it (except the grips - which I think is my best wood grip option and was seeking confirmation). The chest carry rigs seem pretty popular, but most people don't need to hump a large caliber sidearm in the great outdoors for the better part of a day either.

Originally I looked at scabards and such for either shotgun or rifle and eventually concluded if I didn't get something that was so comfortable and easy to wear/use, it wouldn't be there when I needed it. When panning, I am bent over a lot either shoveling, working pans, moving rocks/gear, and a huge revolver on my chest is simply going to be in the way.

What I decided on is the most traditional solution - because usually this is what works best. I think the chest holsters are so popular because the wheel on the 460 is so dang big I could see where a smaller framed person might be uncomfortable with a strong side carry.

Also, I am not sure I could effectively draw from that holster. I can easily clear my 5" on a draw, but not by a lot. If the barrel was longer, it would be a problem. It seems that would be even more pronounced with the chest rigs as well. Have you done any draw and dry fire training at home? Does the RSO at your range let you load up, draw, and fire it? It seems to me that would laze the lane next to you unless they put you on the end (cross draw has same problem).

Regards,

_CrazyCooter_

 

[ruggyh]

First of all X-frames are a round butt K frame.


For wood grips, the best I have found for me are Nill.
The make extra large size for large hands.

Several threads in the revolver forum in the recent past.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/433665-karl-nill-grips-686-phil-hemphill-grip.html

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/383656-460-s-w-wood-grips.html

 

[sandmansans]

I own, have used in the field, and am completely satisfied with everything I linked as I own it (except the grips - which I think is my best wood grip option and was seeking confirmation). The chest carry rigs seem pretty popular, but most people don't need to hump a large caliber sidearm in the great outdoors for the better part of a day either.

Originally I looked at scabards and such for either shotgun or rifle and eventually concluded if I didn't get something that was so comfortable and easy to wear/use, it wouldn't be there when I needed it. When panning, I am bent over a lot either shoveling, working pans, moving rocks/gear, and a huge revolver on my chest is simply going to be in the way.

What I decided on is the most traditional solution - because usually this is what works best. I think the chest holsters are so popular because the wheel on the 460 is so dang big I could see where a smaller framed person might be uncomfortable with a strong side carry.

Also, I am not sure I could effectively draw from that holster. I can easily clear my 5" on a draw, but not by a lot. If the barrel was longer, it would be a problem. It seems that would be even more pronounced with the chest rigs as well. Have you done any draw and dry fire training at home? Does the RSO at your range let you load up, draw, and fire it? It seems to me that would laze the lane next to you unless they put you on the end (cross draw has same problem).

Regards,

_CrazyCooter_

No I dont. My x frame revolver is for pure range novelty purposes. I don't hunt so she will never see the great outdoors.

 

[_CrazyCooter_]

Those Nill grips got exactly what I am looking for ... finger grooves, stipling, and extra meat on the butt ... thank you for the lead. I am going to hit them up and likely buy something (I emailed them through their contact form). I will eventually post back after some field time if I get a product, but it might be a while.

Still open on the other issues if anyone cares to comment.

Regards,

_CrazyCooter_

 

[shell627]

Simply Rugged Chesty Puller rig might be the way for you to go.

 

[_CrazyCooter_]

Simply Rugged Chesty Puller rig might be the way for you to go.

For reasons stated above, I need a practical outdoor carry. That means I am outdoors, doing something other than shooting and showing off. Humping a pan in a stream where bears might frequent would be a good example.

After extensive research, I found a strong side carry holster I am very happy with. It is field tested over most of a summer and reported as "awesome, will buy again". I draw/dry fire practice at home. It carries the weight and bulk very well, but I do need the weight offset of the speed loaders on the other side of the belt. Regardless, I feel I can draw about as fast as I am gonna draw.

A chest rig doesn't cut it for what I need. Most folks don't need what I need. So, to each his(her) own.

I am not solving a holster problem.

I got a great lead on the grips. I am happy about that! That is my biggest concern and look forward to hearing from Nills.

Anyone got some advice on molyweb mounting for cross draw, particularly on a pack hip belt? If I got a good lead on that, I would be pretty much happy with the outcome of my post. Hell, I would even buy another leather lefty holster for my pack and leave on there permanently.

I get that most folks on S&W forums don't have my problems. Thanks for your consideration in advance.

Regards,

Cooter

 

[ruggyh]

I use cross draw from these guys,

MERNICKLE HOLSTERS

I have them in several different lengths.

I can draw much faster and find them more comfortable with longer barrel and scoped 460s. They adjust well regardless of how much clothing I am wearing.

Ruggy

 

[_CrazyCooter_]

Yeah, I emailed Nills and am waiting to hear back. I think they just started a long holiday and it sounds like I might not hear back until Jan. I am looking at something like this:

From the PDF on their site, it looks like a SW036PH or SW036PHG8 (Phil Hemphill with closed backstrap). My trigger finger actually hangs on the guard, so I am now curious if I can get them larger than the factory hogues (the pricing guide lists an "XL" with the same model number). This might both improve my grip and get my trigger finger positioned a lot better. They list them as 165 bucks for either and they are K/L Frame round butt, which is supposed to fit the 460.

Until I find a molyweb solution for pack mounting a cross draw, I really can't evaluate another holster. I did peek though and it looks like they got a nice selection. Curious if they mold them to the actual firearm (Simply Rugged were specifically modled to my GP100 and 460Mag and fit exactly right out of the box - the holsters would NOT be suitable for other firearms unless they were very similar dimensions), but I will definitely check them out when I get that far.

Since you seem to be full of info, have any advice on front sights? I keep the lead comp on at all times, so that will help some with a fiber optic sight, but between the comp and the holster, I suspect I might be hard on them. Curious if anyone has experience with this as I would prefer something rugged and durable (or at least easily serviceable) if possible even if I gave up a little polish.

Thanks for the info!

Regards,

_CrazyCooter_

EDIT: I just said "screw it" and order the SW036PHG8XL model.

 

[armorer951]

As a youth, in a much more benign and peaceful place here in the lower 48, I once lost my holstered Ruger Single-Six while on a long hike in the wooded acres behind our home. It was later retrieved, after I retraced my steps.
(my memory was much better then)

Because of this lesson, I confess my first thought when you mentioned your holster was, does it have some sort of retension device built in?

Since your attention is probably most often focused on your work, and the work and terrain is obviously difficult, I'm concerned that you could "loose" the gun out of the holster, and that, as it often does, this could happen at the most inopportune time.
This is a perhaps a minor detail for sure, but as one with first hand experience, I thought I should mention.

 

[_CrazyCooter_]

When I bought the holster I have, I did get a couple of add ons; a retention strap was one of them. Just a simple leather strap that went over the back of the hammer and buttoned down. Simple and effective.

I practiced quite a bit at home and it does add a bit of time to a draw, but not much. Missing detaching it does though.

Because of how the holster fits and wears (it is not a generic leather holster - it is actually molded for a specific model of gun - a 460 V in this case) I think it is very unlikely to come out. I have to tug with some force to pull it. So unless I had an accident that sent me a** over tea kettle, such as falling in fast moving water and getting swept down stream a bit or taking a fall down a grade in rougher terrain, I don't think routine panning, shoveling, and classifying isn't going to be an issue.

After the back and forth, it is situational right now. The place I was working most of last summer didn't have a lot of elevation play to get there and I could use waders to cross streams in most locations plus the water was very clear, so I opted out.

However, I have done a fair bit of property/history research on a new area I want to prospect. This is part of why I am trying to gear up a bit as I will have to hike in with all my stuff, on crappy and occasionally dangerous trails, with significant elevation gains, to work an area downstream from now defunct world class gold mine and its former hydro powered stamp mills.

When I go there, I am absolutely using a retention strap.

Regards,

_CrazyCooter_