Adventures with the M60 machinegun

[sigp220.45]

I had one of those "geez, I'm old" moments the other day. We have a new guy who just got out of the Air Force after a couple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan as an Air Force Combat Controller - basically he was assigned to Special Forces ground units and was the guy who spoke Air Force to pilots when the grunts wanted things blown up.

I got out of the Air Force almost 20 years ago, but hey - how much can things change? We were talking guns and I asked if he had to qualify on the M60.

He looked at me and cocked his head to the side like a dog hearing a strange sound. Then he said, "Ummm, I don't think we have those anymore." Later he offered to help me cross the street.

So, a little internet searching later I find out the venerable M60 has been replaced by the M240. OK, things do change. But I was surprised that many folks had bad things to say about the old M60.

Granted, I never had much to do with the thing. I was an Air Force Security Police officer (got out as a Capt) so I shot it few times but never had to qualify with it, but there were always M60s around on the fire teams. I always thought it was a good piece of gear.

I'd love the hear some first hand accounts of experiences with the old gun. And since no thread is complete without pictures, here's one of a guy who believes in keeping plenty of ammo around.

 

[canoeguy]

I got to shoot one while in High School, Air Force Junior ROTC. Our Commander decided to let us have some fun with an Army Reserve Unit doing their monthly training at Fort Picket, Virginia. They let us train on all the weapons the Army guys were training with that weekend, M-16, M-60, LAWS rocket and Claymore Mine. We each got to shoot a belt of M-60 ammo at some old vehicles parked on the range, you'd fire a few rounds, then hear the bullets hit/pass through the vehicles.

Fired about 20 rounds through the M-16, as I remember at about 50 yards. Got to shoot a practice LAWS projectile at a derelict tank, lots of fun. Did it make me want to join the Army? No, joined the Navy instead....

This was around 1976, different times, letting High School kids play with machine guns....

 

[roundgunner]

I liked the 60. I learned how not to cock it right off the bat. Waiting too long to change a barrel that was a pain in the ….hand.

I could shoot it fairly well I guess, my spotter had to tell me if the range was far, it shook my eyeballs so much the rounds would hit before my eyes slowed down.

I did get a chance to shoot the navy version of the new .223 version a couple years ago. Pretty nice, 200 round drum, takes 16 mags too. Will it penetrate walls??

It’s not a 60.

 

[Steave]

There are a number of legitimate complaints with the original M60, some of these were addressed with the M60E3 and later the E4 variants. The biggest problems with the original 60, as pictured above, was the bipod was attached to the barrel instead of the receiver, so when changing barrels the gun dropped into the ground, the front sight was fixed so the POI always changed slightly when changing barrels and the sear had a tendency to wear and cause the gun to run away. Also, if the top cover was closed with the bolt forward the feed pawls would be damaged. The Army never adopted the E3, but did upgrade all of their guns to the E3 op rod and top cover.

IMO, a 60 will never be as reliable as a M240, but a M60E3 also weighs 11 pounds less. M60's are still in use with some National Guard units and the SEAL's still prefer them because of the weight issue.

If you take a M240 apart, you will find it is basically a BAR action turned upside down, a MG42 pistol grip and a M60 top cover, which is a virtual copy of the MG42 top cover.

The M60 is probably my favorite belt gun to shoot, but then again, no one is shooting back at me. I don't think it is as awful as some folks make them out to be, but it isn't as reliable as a M240 or even a MG42. Several years ago I was shooting my M240, the gun was running very sluggish and would always fire 2-3 extra rounds when you let off the trigger. I popped the top cover only to find a mashed up 9mm case had somehow found its way into the action. The gun still ran, just not well, I doubt a 60 would still be running.

In the late '70's the Army was looking for a new coax gun for their tanks and tested the FN MG (M240) for the first time. IIRC, the M60 started having issues around the 6000 rd. mark, no problems with the 240 until 27K rounds or so. The 240 is a much better gun, but far from a lightweight SAW.

 

[walnutred]

My first MOS was 82C, Field Artillery Surveyor. A 5 man survey team when I was in had 5 M16A1, two with M203s attached, and one M60 machine gun. I was the M60 gunner. I also competed with the M60 on the machine gun team, the M16A1 on the combat rifle team and with an M14 on the precision rifle team.

I liked the M60, but in my opinion the US should have just adopted the MG42 and been done with it. I've handled both and if I had a choice I'd take the MG42 in 7.62 over the M60.

I quite competing with the M60 when they started making me shoot it right handed. That and the pre match two mile run with all our gear was getting old. You'd see the service pistol competitors jogging along with their sidearm proudly on their side, holding a conversation. Me and my A gunner would be jogging along with the m60, tripod, spare barrel bag, etc.

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

First time I fired a M-60 was on December 11, 1965 @2330 hrs off the south tip of Vietnam. Returned fire from a Junk that opened up on us while flying at 1500 feet @ 130 knots. The plane was a P5M Martin Marlin seaplane. We carried 4 M-60's, one in each door, plus rockets and parachute flares. Also carried a 11 million candlepower search light that turned night into day. The M-60 was always flawless in operation for us, and we never did any barrel changes because it was always in the slip-stream of the plane. The tracers made it very easy to get and stay on target. After using about 4 500 round ammo cans the Junk was left a smoking piece of junk...pun intended...and no movement was seen from anyone who had been on board. It was an exciting night for a 19 year old kid a long way from home.

 

[Evil Dog]

Back in the mid-60's I would occasionally fly door gunner on one of the Huey's. Most had the M-60.... I much preferred the ones with a 50 caliber.

 

[redsfan2]

My primary MOS was the machine gun. I carried the gun in Viet Nam with the 3rd Marines along the DMZ and later with the 5th Marines around An Hoa .... Phu Nons & Liberty Bridge area.
My last duty station was as an Enlisted Instructor at The Basic School at Quantico Va. where I instructed new Lt.s in the use of the M60 and the .45 pistol.
I absolutely loved my M60's. I took good care of them and they returned the favor. I never had one fail on me in a combat situation and the failures that did happen during training were usually the result of mishandling and / or poor care and cleaning.
As to my proficiency .... not to boast ... but I was usually the one they had shoot demonstrations for the Lt.s during exercises.
I've read about the 240. It sounds like a great gun and I have to admit that I wouldn't turn my nose up at the chance to shoot one. The M60 had a good run, but progress always brings along the next improvement, & thats the way it should be.

 

[cmort666]

I LOATHED the things.

The mechanism for retaining the trigger group was designed by one of the "differently intelligent". No matter which way you put on the leaf spring, it fell off, allowing the retaining pin to fall out, causing the trigger group to become detached.

In ROTC in college, I once ran across a field of tall grass with one at port arms. The next thing I knew, the barrel and receiver were in my left hand and the pistol grip in my right. The pin and spring were of course nowhere to be found.

We would never have even adopted the M60 if it weren't for some "differently intelligent" individual at Saginaw Steering Gear, who having been tasked with producing engineering drawings for a .30-06 version of the MG42, did so without taking into account the fact that the .30-06 case is 6mm longer than that of the 7.92x57mm case. Thereby producing the world's first recoil operated, air cooled, belt fed, SINGLE SHOT rifle.

 

[Rule 303]

The M60 Pigs we had in Vietnam were POS.
When I went to the 101st, I had to rebuild all of the ones in our company. Lugs on the bolt were cracked and shearing and the gas plugs and retainers were put in wrong.

I used Mag 58s in Training Group in 1968 and they were far better guns, what we call the M240 now.

Jungle Work

 

[rimfired]

Ah, the PIG! This was taken in 1971. We had completed a POW camp liberation mission and were being perimeter guarded by a mortars platoon. Waiting for a dust-off I had one of the guys take this pic. The rest of our weapons were at our feet. I wasn't the 60 gunner just borrowed it but we all had to carry one belt of extra "feed" in the field.

 

[jag312]

You could say that I have had some experience with an M60. I liked it. Still do. Shooting it always gave me a feeling of security; like a warm, fuzzy blanket. If some disreputible person wanted to do terrible, painful things to my body, then I knew that the M60 would protect me. I have no experience with the new machineguns, but I would be willing to bet my life that they are very good, too.

The MG42 and the modern varients (MG3) are good weapons. I think the MG42 and the German made MG3 fire too fast at 1200 rounds/minute. The Italian made MG3 is modified to fire 600 rounds/minute. I think that is about right. I wouldn't mind getting some experience with the Russian PKM. I really want to see how it works with a rimmed cartridge.

 

[cmort666]

I wouldn't mind getting some experience with the Russian PKM. I really want to see how it works with a rimmed cartridge.

My first supply sergeant in Korea was with the 82nd when they troop tested various machineguns when they were developing the SAW. He said that by far, the favorite gun was the PKM. He said they hated the H&K because it had excessive recoil.

 

[Steave]

Oh, another nice thing about the original M60, put the piston in backwards and you have a real neat looking single shot, manually operated belt gun. This, too, was corrected on the E3, it doesn't matter how the piston goes in, just drop it in and it'll run.

 

[Steave]

My first supply sergeant in Korea was with the 82nd when they troop tested various machineguns when they were developing the SAW. He said that by far, the favorite gun was the PKM. He said they hated the H&K because it had excessive recoil.

PK's are excellent guns. Again, I like shooting the M60, but when the conversation turns to the best light machine guns in the world, there are generally only three mentioned, the FN MAG-58 (M240,) the MG3 and the PKM.

 

[dennis40x]

I had familiarization with the M60 to the point of take down and reassembly. We fired also as part of the process. I recall some “Grunt” gunners used C-ration cans attached to the receiver for the belt to feed over. I don’t know how prevalent this was done but I do remember seeing it. M60 and field radio antenna’s bring unwanted attention to their users.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Always worked for me. In Vietnam it often seemed the riflemen were there to support the MGs and not the other way around.

 

[oldwoodsloafer]

M60 !!! That was a new gun!
I'm a brown boot; my first units had Browning M1919A4's and A6's.
Utterly reliabile, accurate, but, Lord, it was heavy. Add the tripod and extra ammo cans and you understand why it took a three man gun team.
Much later, I instructed on the M60. It is/was a respectable weapon and it sure was lighter.
Sorry, I retired from the Guard before the M240 and M249 filtered down.

 

[semperfi71]

Not my story but that of a dear friend.

Captain Caswell, USMC, was leading a company of Marines up Hill 110 in Operation Union Station. They ran head-on into what was believed to be a regiment or reinforced battalion of NVA.

Five hour fight. No air or artillery support until the end. M16's were issued just days earlier [taking place of the M14's].

Early in the fight the M16's began to crap out. By the end of the fight almost all of them were single-shot rifles.

But they had four M60's and lots of ammo. Finally, when the NVA tried to flank the company and roll them up the M60's were turned loose, with little support from the singleshot M-16's.

The M60's saved the day.

 

[redsfan2]

While I was with India 3/5 one of our patrols walked into an ambush. They got on the radio and yelled for help, and our Lt ran over to me and said " come on you're going with me." I had the 60, his regular carry weapon was an M79 & he carried all his own ammo. We grabbed 2 more riflemen ( that he picked ) and we went to bail out the ambush.
On the way the Lt. prepped tree lines and other possible hiding spots with the bloop. The bad guys broke contact and scooted before we got there .... and our guys had 1 wounded and that was it.
I told the Lt. ... after things quieted down that what he did was ballsy allright ... but he was asking to get shot at. His response was "Yeah .. I know but I was counting on him missing his first shot and you and the other guys making sure he didn't get a second chance."
About a week later ... the rest of the platoon had been told what had happened .. we were being trucked into the rear ( An Hoa ). The Lt. laid his bloop on top of the canvas on the truck and the driver ( not knowing he was an officer ) called him a name and said get that $^+ thing off there. All of the guys around the Lt. made a grab for the guy at the same time. We didn't appreciate him being talked to like that and the driver got the message.
More of a good Lt. story than a good gun story ... but it does show the stock that he placed in the machine gun.