Advice-death in the family

SW CQB 45

SW CQB 45

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I had a family member commit suicide (medical issues) and he kept a lot of cash and had a few guns at the house.

when I got the phone call, I used my LEO status to get the details from the LE agency. I was told there was a lot of cash all over the place when they cleared the scene.

a person who was close to my family member was left in charge of handling his affairs when he passed. After this person realized he needed to get to the house and secure it.....the moochers were already there.

no cash was found and they asked about the guns. the person in charge could not think straight at that time and said they could take the guns.

Today, I got the phone call saying I can go to the house and get whatever I wanted. I was interested in the guns because I was with him when he purchased

Colt 38 super
Ruger Mini 14

thats when I was made aware that he let the moochers take the guns. I asked how did they get in the house. It appears they were smart enough to get the keys from the medical examiner based on last name and being a half brother/sister and they were in the house for hours.

I was very close with this family member since 1977 till I moved away in 1988. around 1991 was about the time when I started to minimize my time to due to work, family and being several hours away. the persons I refer to moochers were "halfs" only by the dad (who died in the late 60s) and they (the moochers) had absolutely nothing to do with our family when I was growing up.

I am not worried about any money that was stolen from the house as I cannot account for exact amount and they will have to account for that theft at the time of their death.

I plan to ask for the guns in the sense that they belong to the immediate family which they were never any part of and showed up to his house some 40-50 yrs later when he died.

I have a strong feeling the guns are likely sold, but has anyone ever experienced similar situation and can offer advice?

I don't think I have a criminal case, and not looking for anything civil. only want to present this in a professional manner and if they have the guns, to return them to immediate family.

I know I am looking for a needle in the haystack, but was hoping they were still in the house. the person who let them take the guns apologized to me and I told him it was not his fault. I blame my family member in the sense that the people he despised the most were the ones who benefited from his death.

thanks for looking
 
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When my father in law passed away, my sister in laws then boyfriend said he would take Art's guns and get them appraised. They were never heard from again. My sister in law thought there were around 200 firearms. I was ready to call the police department and press charges, but the rest of the family refused and let it go. So, basically, I have nothing for you. You can pick your friends, but you have no choice of your relatives.....
 
A10 said:
You can pick your friends, but you have no choice of your relatives.....
Click to expand...

you are so right.

at the funeral, the man had a smirk on his face and the female did a dramatic fall and started scream crying.

academy award performance. I almost went up to her and said, why are you crying....we have not seen you for about 40 yrs.
 
:( If it were me I would let it go. If you pursue this all it's going to do is keep mad and upset. I would just honor the person that has passed and forget about the rest. It's sad that the death of a person can bring out the worst in some people. I am sorry about your loss. Don
 
At this point, all you can do is help the next of kin and console those that need it.
Be as good a friend to him in death as you were to him while alive.
As far as the vultures go, they'll get their reward, funny how life/karma/whatever takes care of it's self.
 
the next of kin is me.

first cousin but we were like brothers until I moved away.

his halfs were never in the picture and only showed at the time of his death and were caught in his house.

his long time friend and work partner was placed in charge of his estate only because I moved away in 1988.

thanks for the advice
 
CQB, not quite sure how succession law works on Texas but would have to believe that non-heirs cannot just come into a home and start removing items -- it may very well be theft (felony theft at that), let alone a civil issue. Your cousin's estate is a legal entity (i.e. the estate owns the property left after your cousin passed) and the "friend/work partner" if he is the administrator, has the power to order items returned to the estate -- (actually, he would file a motion with the court and ask the judge presiding over the succession to order the return of the items). I would ask the friend/work partner to contact the folks who took the guns and ask for thier return. In Louisiana, we have a doctrine called "seizin" which means that upon a person's death, their estate automatically devolves into ownership of their property -- this protects the rightful heirs from clowns coming over and raiding the home -- once the succession is filed in court, the administrator of the estate can have the court order the return of assets that were illegally taken by people who had no right to them. In fact, the administrator usually has the legal duty/legal obligation to take all necessary action to obtain return of assets to the estate that were wrongfully taken. However, you may be able to suggest criminal charges could be referred to gain compliance by the miscreants. Unless the cousin left a will with specific bequests of those guns to the folks that took them, you would seem to have the superior legal position in this. Since I do not practice law in Texas, you may want to spend 10 minutes visiting with a general practice lawyer in your hometown (who may not charge you anything for the advice) or have the friend/work partner ask the lawyer who filed the succession for advice in this matter. But, based on general legal principles, if you are the next of kin, your rights would trump those of the folks who took the weapons, absent a will bequeathing those items. Hope this gives some general guidance.
 
I would file a theft report, listing the "kin" as the suspects....

IF he had no will, there are laws in place as to Who the property of the Estate goes to.

I would also file a complaint, and lawsuit with the Law Enforcement Agency, that left an improper person incharge of the property.

And same agains who ever let the keys go to Improper people.
 
my condolences go to you and your family.

i had something happen when my grandpa and grandma died, my grandpa never updated his will but when i started to shoot he said that his guns went to me.
everyone execpt my uncle (who was the head of the will) agreed that i should get them, so i pack them up and head home. next day my uncle walks into my house and took my grandpas single shot .22 that hes had since 1932. ill admit we go into it and ended up skuffling in the front yard, long story short my uncle got the single shot (only reason he wanted it besides the others was it was worth a pretty penny) i got a pump .22 and a 12ga.

But the only thing i can say is try to work something out with them even know your mad and full of emotions.


Matt
 
Sorry to read your post. Brought back bad memories. Yesterday was 8 years ago that my identical-twin brother died. It took me a while to get beyond the way his wife conducted herself in totally and completely disregarding his clearly stated written instructions for what he wanted done with several of his firearms.

I will not speak to the matter of legal action. Everyone has to deal with that in the manner they consider best. All excuse making not withstanding, my sister-in-law's prevarication and dishonest conduct following the death of my brother was completely unjustified and inexcusable. The consequence was that she did herself irreparable harm in the eyes of family and friends. As my father's executor, I was in a much better position to see to it that things would be handled with integrity. I made certain that she was treated equitably in the settlement of his debts and remaining assets. It is a course of action that I would respectfully suggest to those who find themselves in similar circumstances.
 
Its definitely a case of theft. removing any of the deceased property like that is theft. I'd press charges.
I also second filing a complaint against those who failed to do their duty to keep his property safe.
 
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I see two ways to handle it. Get the law involved make a fuss and the gun will probably never be seen again. The other way is contact the person who you think has them. Then make them as cash offer and buy them. Yeah I know its bull stuff but I think its the only way you will get them back.

I guess it depends on how bad you want them.

Dancing with the devil if you will. I just dont see another path. If you do want them you will need to work fast before they are gone.

Best of luck
 
I know they removed cash.....no one can tell how much....so thats a goner.

We are talking hours after his death and the executor of his estate went to the house and the moochers were there.

he asked about money and they said there was none.

they asked the executor what about the guns and in a confused state of mind....he told them they could take them.

thats how the guns left the house.
 
The executor of the estate disposed of the guns to family members. End of story. Morals and ethics aside, it sounds legit to me.
 
Mike, I understand how you feel and I sympathize, but I would encourage you to just let this go. I had an older friend who was not related, but we were good friends for many years and spent a lot of time together. He lived alone, had no relatives who visited him (that I could see), and had only a few local friends who were really just acquaintances. In his early 90s, he got ill and his son gathered him up (and everything in his house of any value) and took him to Colorado, where he died three months later. He had a nice S&W M&P which he would bring out to my residence and we would shoot it several times a year. He frequently told me that when he was gone, he wanted me to have it. I ended up with an old Army surplus napsack that he used when we would go hiking. His son was going to throw it away! :mad: I am sure the M&P was sold for little of nothing in Colorado.

I received similar advice. Let it go. Sometimes you can't "unring" the bell, and even if you can, it is not worth it.
 
Mike, I'm sorry to hear of your loss. Prayers go out to you. I had a similar situation after the death of a family member some years ago. There were no guns involved, however the things involved had great sentimental value. The vultures came out in droves. It still eats me up to this day if I let the anger start building again. Try not to focus on it. Think of the good times you two shared.

......moon
 
Hi:
The Suicide scene was a "Crime Scene". The Investigator (s) should have photo and listed all items (cash/firearms) plus having comm center run the serial numbers of the firearms for stolen/missing hits.
The cash should have been counted and noted for not only the incident report but to protect the Investigators against libel charges.
I would DIG deeper into this as from what I read , this was a "Three Stoeges" investigation.
 
COL Jagdog said:
CQB, not quite sure how succession law works on Texas but would have to believe that non-heirs cannot just come into a home and start removing items -- it may very well be theft (felony theft at that), let alone a civil issue. Your cousin's estate is a legal entity (i.e. the estate owns the property left after your cousin passed) and the "friend/work partner" if he is the administrator, has the power to order items returned to the estate -- (actually, he would file a motion with the court and ask the judge presiding over the succession to order the return of the items). I would ask the friend/work partner to contact the folks who took the guns and ask for thier return. In Louisiana, we have a doctrine called "seizin" which means that upon a person's death, their estate automatically devolves into ownership of their property -- this protects the rightful heirs from clowns coming over and raiding the home -- once the succession is filed in court, the administrator of the estate can have the court order the return of assets that were illegally taken by people who had no right to them. In fact, the administrator usually has the legal duty/legal obligation to take all necessary action to obtain return of assets to the estate that were wrongfully taken. However, you may be able to suggest criminal charges could be referred to gain compliance by the miscreants. Unless the cousin left a will with specific bequests of those guns to the folks that took them, you would seem to have the superior legal position in this. Since I do not practice law in Texas, you may want to spend 10 minutes visiting with a general practice lawyer in your hometown (who may not charge you anything for the advice) or have the friend/work partner ask the lawyer who filed the succession for advice in this matter. But, based on general legal principles, if you are the next of kin, your rights would trump those of the folks who took the weapons, absent a will bequeathing those items. Hope this gives some general guidance.
Click to expand...

Yeah...good luck with that. They were allowed in by whoever this person is who was going to allow the OP in to "take what he wants"....

No one should have been allowed to take anything until it was probated. INCLUDING the OP.

Hard as it may be, I would let it go.
 
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It seems to me that if the person in charge of his affairs gave them permission to take the guns, there's not much you can do about it. Especially if an inventory of what guns there were and who took what was never made. I'm sure they would never admit to what they took. The moochers hadn't been around for all those years, and I expect you won't see them again until the next death in the family. As someone else mentioned, karma will get them. And so will the ultimate Judge. My sympathy for the loss of your family member.
 
I have some very good advice here. Favorite forum even though I have swayed to 1911s.

I am disgusted with how the scene was NOT handled by the police dept. Its a larger dept and likely their policy on how they left rolls of cash laying around.

I think I will not pursue anything and just let the man upstairs handle it. I really would have like to keep his Colt Govt 38 super but knowing how these moochers are....that gun was sold for cash.

Take care and thanks for your life experiences
 
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I wish these things did not happen. Most families go through this. My brother and sister stole my parent's entire household property when my father was too ill to stop them. They also raided their bank accounts. I stepped in to support my parents and, after my father passed away, I support my mother.

It is sad that families become greedy. When my parents property was stolen by my siblings, things I owned were stolen as well.

It is sad that people do not do the honorable things, but people tend to do what they can get away with.

The thing to do is have a will and give some things away while you are alive. My father gave me some of his prized possessions to hold for my oldest son. For years, I have guarded these items for my son. I also got my father's two carry guns, since he kept them near until he passed. My mother made sure I got them.

For the past several years, I support two households and watch every dollar I have. If we relied on my siblings, my mother would have been homeless or not living in the retirement community where her friends are.

There is no simple way to deal with family greed. I chose to set out on my own and leave the family business. Ultimately, it gave me the financial means to ensure my parents could face their golden years well.

As my father was close to passing, I promised him his wife, my mother, would be cared for and he need not worry. He and I knew he had not planned for the future and I wanted him to know all would be fine.

There are no great rewards in what I do. It would be wrong to expect rewards for being honest and honorable. Some things I do simply because they are the right things; often, being honorable and true has to be reward enough.
 
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O2Guy said:
The executor of the estate disposed of the guns to family members. End of story. Morals and ethics aside, it sounds legit to me.
Click to expand...

It is not that simple -- all states have laws that govern handling of assets if there is no will -- and the executor has a fiduciary duty to follow the law and protect the estate and the legitimate heirs -- and the executor is required to file a motion with the court seeking a court order before disposing of assets of the succession -- the executor or executrix (if a woman) cannot simply just give away property as they please without obtaining the court's consent. This not only protects the proper heirs, it protects the executor from being sued for improper disposal of assets of the estate. This is textbook succession law (the procedural aspects may vary a little form state to state.) Usually, executors are also required to file a bond with the court (a surety bond) to protect against illegal acts. The term "collation" is a legal term that refers to having assets returned to the estate if they have been illegally distributed. Giving the guns to the folks that showed up at the house will not pass legal muster, as a general rule of law.
 
KJM said:
Yeah...good luck with that. They were allowed in by whoever this person is who was going to allow the OP in to "take what he wants"....

No one should have been allowed to take anything until it was probated. INCLUDING the OP.

Hard as it may be, I would let it go.
Click to expand...

You may have missed the point of my post -- I specifically mentioned the filing of the succession and obtaining court orders -- that no one should have taken anything and that the executor can have it returned to the estate -- stuff like this happens everday and judges order assets returned to the estate -- every state has cases like this and probate judges issue orders all the time that return illegally taken assets to the estate. "Good luck with that" is not helpful -- spend a little time in probate court and you will find that judges have no sense of humor for folks who "help themselves" to succession assets -- even if an executor allows them to do so -- there was no court order in this circumstance blessing such an action. Also, bear in mind that in every state, the executor is required to file a final accounting and homologation of the property -- which must be approved ("blessed") by the court. One of the main reasons that succession law developed was to prevent these types of things from happening and to provide legal recourse to an aggrieved party.
 
Usually, around here, the first person to back the truck up to the house gets the stuff...


It isn't right, but it will often cost more than the stuff's worth to try and get it back.


Sorry for your loss...........
 
Call the people you refer to as "the moochers" and make them a cash offer for the guns. Simple.

Its definitely a case of theft. removing any of the deceased property like that is theft.
Click to expand...

He said right in the original post that the executor said they could have the guns. No prosecutor in any busy counties I know of would touch that one with a ten foot pole.
 
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As a locksmith, I've seen this a hundred times. The absolute first thing that should happen is for the locks to be changed.

Even if you think there won't be a problem do it anyway. I have helped many who learned the hard way after relatives and "friends" ripped them off. They think they are somehow entitled to the deceased property.

To the OP, I would let it go. It ain't worth the hassle. Your memories of this person will have to do.
 
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