Afghan Police Firearms Training

[Muley Gil]

As these thoughts don't completely fit the other Afghanistan thread, I figured it would be best to start a new one.

I spent three years as a police advisor in Kunduz, in the northeastern section of the country. Those years, 2004-2007, we were in the shadow of the "big war"-Iraq. During that time, most of the US money went to that area and Afghanistan got the left-overs.

The Department of State was running the police training, though as time went on, DOD started taking over, but it didn't assume complete control until after I left. There were several obstacles; one of the head policy makers in Kabul was former LAPD and he decided that police officers would wear blue, not the traditional Afghan green. A lot of money was spent producing blue uniforms that the Afghans didn't like. After Mr. LAPD left the mission, wiser heads went back to green suits-more money was spent.

When I first got there in 2004, the rookie cops were NOT being taught any firearms training. Later, when an election was approaching, someone in Kabul decided that armed police would be desirable. I was given the job of taking five Afghan senior police instructors and turning them into firearms instructors. I should mention that I was at an Regional Training Center (RTC)-aka a police academy. There were a number of RTCs throughout the country. Well, wanting to do things correctly, I called down to Kabul to get the firearms curriculum, only to find out there wasn't one. I was told, "Well, you're a firearms instructor, you know what to teach them". The head firearms guy for the mission was a retired Vermont State Trooper, BUT HE WASN'T A FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR! Let that sink in for a minute.

Well, I started out as simple as I could. First and foremost, I taught safety. Working with my language assistant, I insisted that each and every lesson would start by emphasizing safety. I would walk into the classroom and say loudly-SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY! My instructor trainees would repeat that back to me in Dari-the local dialect. I had two rules that they would have teach-finger off of the trigger and muzzle direction.

As it is presently 2:30 AM, I will continue later.

 

[fordson]

Waiting on more, thanks!

 

[Old_Cop]

That must have been a long, lonely three years in a place that no one would choose for vacation.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I think it is long last time we got out of Afganistan. They do not want what we are selling pure and simple.
Let the Chinese give it a go-it will be interesting. My money is on the Chinese as they are not constrained by human rights concerns.
As I said in the earlier thread-drones are the way to og. We need to change the way we fight wars-turn of the century tactics are terribly inefficient and needlessly waste American lives

 

[Rodan]

They do not want what we are selling pure and simple.

QFT.

Our foreign policy has for far too long assumed that people around the world want what we want, and that's simply not the case everywhere.

Looking forward to hearing more of the OP's story. As a state level SME for teaching LE officers to be trainers, I was recruited for a similar mission at around that time, though I made the decision to stay home for family.

 

[LDM]

Afghanistan ranks among the most worthless piles of rocks on the planet. After we pull our troops out, drop enough nukes on it to make it glow at night.

From what I've heard, the Afghan troops run at the mere mention of the Taliban. Aside from those who are Taliban themselves. So all that training goes to waste. Not to mention all the weapons they leave behind for the Taliban to glean and rearm.

Why should we waste lives and resources for those who won't help themselves?

 

[vt_shooter]

Afghanistan ranks among the most worthless piles of rocks on the planet. After we pull our troops out, drop enough nukes on it to make it glow at night.

From what I've heard, the Afghan troops run at the mere mention of the Taliban. Aside from those who are Taliban themselves. So all that training goes to waste. Not to mention all the weapons they leave behind for the Taliban to glean and rearm.

Why should we waste lives and resources for those who won't help themselves?

It's a mistake to help those whose ideologies cause them to hate us, or to welcome them as immigrants when the reason they're immigrating is not because they want to assimilate or because they like our culture. We can be mystifyingly stupid.

 

[Wyo]

I think it is long last time we got out of Afganistan. They do not want what we are selling pure and simple.
Let the Chinese give it a go-it will be interesting. My money is on the Chinese as they are not constrained by human rights concerns.
As I said in the earlier thread-drones are the way to og. We need to change the way we fight wars-turn of the century tactics are terribly inefficient and needlessly waste American lives

I wouldn't give the Chinese any better chance than Alexander the Great or the British or the Russians or the Americans or any of an endless number of other wanna-be conquerers. You're right, the Chinese aren't constrained by human rights issues but neither are the Afghans. Just ask any one of the above armies about that. We learned nothing from history. Once again we drifted into "nation building," an enterprise that just doesn't work in most of the third world. We should have cleared out of there years ago. The men and women who fought there gave everything they had, God knows, and I applaud them for that. But they were given a task that just could not be accomplished by politicians more interested in themselves than anything else. I'm sorry they paid the price for that.

 

[biku324]

Most everyone (except Russians) likes Americans. They watch our subtitled movies and TV shows on cable and satellite and hear our music hourly. Most believe we really all live in nice houses with nice cars and work in offices making big money, all without taxes or rules or obligations. THIS is what they would like - not our politics, religion, nor lifestyles.

The biggest problems with training rural Iraqis, Afghans, and Pakistanis to shoot were uncorrected vision (the norm) and trying to train them in an utterly foriegn use of force mindset.

Shona ba shona my aching posterior.

 

[Muley Gil]

Part 2:

The weapons that were issued to the Afghan police officers were AMD-65s, Hungarian AKs with folding stocks. I taught the instructors the interview stance aka the Weaver stance. I took a heavy piece of cardboard, stood on it and had my language assistant (LA) outline my feet. I didn't have any yellow paint (Semper Fi ), but colored in the footprints with Magic Marker. I emphasized that police are not the army, we are responsible for each and every shot, so we don't use full auto, semi auto only. Luckily, the five officers that the Afghan police general in charge of the Afghan side of the RTC gave me were all good students and each became a good instructor.

At the beginning of the training day, I would walk into the classroom and my instructors would stand and say-SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY!, in Dari of course.

Later, I received a training manual from Kabul. Remember I said the chief firearms guy in Kabul was not a firearms instructor? Two phrases from the "book" stood out: one mentioned "Forget everything you have ever seen about guns in the movies and on television." Many of our student cops came from villages that had no electricity, let alone TV sets. The second "catch phrase" concerned muzzle awareness: "Imagine a laser beam coming out of the muzzle of your rifle." MY LA came to me with the major, who was in charge of the firearms instructors. He had read the training manual (Written in Dari, which had taken forever to get to us) and when he got to the part about the laser, his only point of reference was maybe the manual was talking about a bayonet. The major had no idea what a laser was and he couldn't imagine a strong beam of light capable of destruction.

The moral of this story is-know your audience.

After the election, it was decided that all new student cops would receive firearms training. Why this took so long to happen I never found out. Point of reference-90% of the Afghan population at that time could neither read nor write. I doubt that has changed much since I left. Since writing on a white board left most of the rookies clueless, hands-on instruction was much preferred.

Oh, did I mention that when I got to Kunduz that there was no range? The site manager had to get permission and money to construct a make-do range. Again, Afghanistan was the "forgotten war", so we had little money to spend. We the safest of the spots outside of the RTC and hired a frontend loader and operator to dig out a 15' range about 15' wide, with a 15' berm.

To be continued.

 

[Marine Corps Air]

Muley,

Thanks for taking the time to post these articles that are providing insight regarding the real challenges that you have had in your work there, and achieving the professional goals that you have set for your self.

I'm not sure that this is one of your challenges, but several years ago another Marine shared with me the fact that another problem that exists among the Afghans is literacy and basic education. For example, if you are working with someone and provide them with instructions on a particular subject, the Afghan may not understand what he/she is expected to do, even after the interpreter has translated the information for you. This may or may not still be the case.

If you have the time, I certainly hope that you'll continue to share these posts with us.

BTW-in my own case, this cowboy in the attached picture sure understands the many challenges that I have had in my career!

Semper Fidelis!

Bill

 

[AJ]

As these thoughts don't completely fit the other Afghanistan thread, I figured it would be best to start a new one.

I spent three years as a police advisor in Kunduz, in the northeastern section of the country. Those years, 2004-2007, we were in the shadow of the "big war"-Iraq. During that time, most of the US money went to that area and Afghanistan got the left-overs.

The Department of State was running the police training, though as time went on, DOD started taking over, but it didn't assume complete control until after I left. There were several obstacles; one of the head policy makers in Kabul was former LAPD and he decided that police officers would wear blue, not the traditional Afghan green. A lot of money was spent producing blue uniforms that the Afghans didn't like. After Mr. LAPD left the mission, wiser heads went back to green suits-more money was spent.

When I first got there in 2004, the rookie cops were NOT being taught any firearms training. Later, when an election was approaching, someone in Kabul decided that armed police would be desirable. I was given the job of taking five Afghan senior police instructors and turning them into firearms instructors. I should mention that I was at an Regional Training Center (RTC)-aka a police academy. There were a number of RTCs throughout the country. Well, wanting to do things correctly, I called down to Kabul to get the firearms curriculum, only to find out there wasn't one. I was told, "Well, you're a firearms instructor, you know what to teach them". The head firearms guy for the mission was a retired Vermont State Trooper, BUT HE WASN'T A FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR! Let that sink in for a minute.

Well, I started out as simple as I could. First and foremost, I taught safety. Working with my language assistant, I insisted that each and every lesson would start by emphasizing safety. I would walk into the classroom and say loudly-SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY! My instructor trainees would repeat that back to me in Dari-the local dialect. I had two rules that they would have teach-finger off of the trigger and muzzle direction.

As it is presently 2:30 AM, I will continue later.

Part 2:

The weapons that were issued to the Afghan police officers were AMD-65s, Hungarian AKs with folding stocks. I taught the instructors the interview stance aka the Weaver stance. I took a heavy piece of cardboard, stood on it and had my language assistant (LA) outline my feet. I didn't have any yellow paint (Semper Fi ), but colored in the footprints with Magic Marker. I emphasized that police are not the army, we are responsible for each and every shot, so we don't use full auto, semi auto only. Luckily, the five officers that the Afghan police general in charge of the Afghan side of the RTC gave me were all good students and each became a good instructor.

At the beginning of the training day, I would walk into the classroom and my instructors would stand and say-SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY!, in Dari of course.

Later, I received a training manual from Kabul. Remember I said the chief firearms guy in Kabul was not a firearms instructor? Two phrases from the "book" stood out: one mentioned "Forget everything you have ever seen about guns in the movies and on television." Many of our student cops came from villages that had no electricity, let alone TV sets. The second "catch phrase" concerned muzzle awareness: "Imagine a laser beam coming out of the muzzle of your rifle." MY LA came to me with the major, who was in charge of the firearms instructors. He had read the training manual (Written in Dari, which had taken forever to get to us) and when he got to the part about the laser, his only point of reference was maybe the manual was talking about a bayonet. The major had no idea what a laser was and he couldn't imagine a strong beam of light capable of destruction.

The moral of this story is-know your audience.

After the election, it was decided that all new student cops would receive firearms training. Why this took so long to happen I never found out. Point of reference-90% of the Afghan population at that time could neither read nor write. I doubt that has changed much since I left. Since writing on a white board left most of the rookies clueless, hands-on instruction was much preferred.

Oh, did I mention that when I got to Kunduz that there was no range? The site manager had to get permission and money to construct a make-do range. Again, Afghanistan was the "forgotten war", so we had little money to spend. We the safest of the spots outside of the RTC and hired a frontend loader and operator to dig out a 15' range about 15' wide, with a 15' berm.

To be continued.

Sounds worse than when I was assigned as a Marine Cadre to the Navy to teach them firearms and security. If their CO did not like something we were teaching he would change CNO mandated policy. They had a "Command at Sea" philosophy and would do things that would get a Marine relieved in a heart beat. Very frustrating!!

 

[Rammer Jammer]

Doesn't take much to understand why Afghanistan is folding in such a speedy fashion.

 

[biku324]

Muley,

I'm not sure that this is one of your challenges, but several years ago another Marine shared with me the fact that another problem that exists among the Afghans is literacy and basic education. For example, if you are working with someone and provide them with instructions on a particular subject, the Afghan may not understand what he/she is expected to do, even after the interpreter has translated the information for you. This may or may not still be the case.

Arabic, Dari, and Pashto are languages radically different than English, or even French, Italian, and Spanish. You often get frustrated when trying to get meaning to folks across that barrier, as even superb interpreters often attach different meanings to Enhlish words.

 

[jeffrefrig]

Jeff, don't say it!.....Jeff, don't say it!.....Jeff, shut up!.......Jeff, quit thinking about saying it!......Jeff, don't say it!......
Peace!

 

[Old Corp]

Thanks Gil - interesting!

Since I retired from LE in 2008, have enjoyed working a few security contracting jobs and through that have met a lot of guys that worked inner and outer perimeter, consulting and police training gigs in the Middle East.
Always an interesting mix of prior LE and military folks.
Some of the money was VERY good.

I'd like to still get into some of it, but - #1 - wife isn't on-board with me doing any Middle East stuff and #2, approaching mid-60's, I'm probably aging out for much of it.
Only thing I've done outside CONUS was 2018 in Puerto Rico, security for power restoration efforts after Hurricane Maria in 2017.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Muley Gil, In the early 90's after the first gulf war, My F-I-L hired on as a contractor to teach in Saudi Arabia's Officers Academy. He was/is a very accomplished and experienced Firearms instructor, especially handgun. At the beginning of each days instruction, it was explained to the students (they consisted of both Cadets and already commissioned officers), that the instructors would be helping correct their grip, stance, and position when needed. DO NOT BE OFFENDED OR INSULTED BY THE INSTRUCTOR USING BOTH HIS HANDS TO DO THIS!

There was a Saudi Major that kept reaching for his jeweled dagger every time any left hand touched him. He would try to stab you for insulting his honor. First the Academy Commander had him disarmed, and when that didn't work, they returned him to his unit. He never learned how to hold and shoot a Beretta 92!

A 10 minute safety lecture cannot over come 1000 years of social conditioning! The men from this part of the world are bred in the tradition of Single Honor and Single Combat, That they ever learn unit tactics shows great devotion to their superiors and their nations!

For the police it must be even harder! The Koran has simple laws and simple (very savvier) punishments, administered by the local potentate's executioner, so our idea of a Justice System is super foreign to their way of thinking!

Ivan

 

[Muley Gil]

Part 3:

Well, we muddled through using our dirt pit range for most of a year. One problem we did have was that on occasion, a stray shot would go over the berm and land in a village several miles away. The village elders would bring spent bullets to the RTC. The site manager and the Afghan police commander would both apologize, promise to stop bullets from landing in the village, etc. No one was ever injured. BTW, some of the spent bullets looked older than the ones we used.

Later on, we received a nice, new range that went out to 100 yards, had a covered ready area at the rear and could accommodate 20 officers on the line. The berm was around 20 feet high, set at about a 30 degree. Immediately, there was a problem. Bullets would hit the beam and travel to the top, flying off towards the village. I contacted the powers that be in Kabul and they were upset, because this range had not been cheap to build. I told the folks in Kabul that what was needed was a vertical wall at the top of the berm. I took pictures of the bullet tracks. Of course, my thoughts were given short shrift. Meanwhile, firearms training at the range was suspended.

Folks flew up from Kabul to inspect the range. I pointed out the bullet tracks. After some hemming and hawing, a wall of Hesco barriers was erected on top of the berm, solving the problem.

I mentioned earlier that the Afghans were using AMD-65s with the folding stocks. A division of the Afghan police, the Border Police, had been trained to slam the butts of their rifles into the ground. This "technique" had been used when the BP was armed with wooden stocked AKs. Needless to say, the folding stocked AMD-65s were not holding up well to this practice. Once again, I had to call Kabul to get this stopped.

Hesco barrier: Hesco bastion - Wikipedia

To be continued.

 

[tennexplorer]

Finally, the beginning of the book! Yay!