Aircrewman revisited

[The Gila Bender]

My sister wants to learn to shoot. She showed me a reconstructed M13 Aircrewman with a British-marked barrel that is not indexed to the frame. It was given to her husband, now deceased, by his father, a former Air Force officer. Although the gun fires it is woefully inaccuracte...and dangerous. I advised her to obtain a modern revolver and keep this as a momento or sell it for parts.
The frame is serial C368046, and bears the correct M13 markings. The barrel, cylinder, extractor, sideplate, and stocks are likely replacement parts and I suspect the internal parts are replacements as well. The good news is that the frame is completely intact with no evidence of being crushed or cut and is in very good condition.
My sister isn't attached to the gun and although I would like to rebuild this as a replica M13 I know that parts are difficult to find and that I wouldn't shoot it. A better idea might be to sell it as a project and use the proceeds to buy her a good shooter J or K frame.
Any idea what the value of an intact M13 frame might be? I will post pics soon.
Thanks!

 

[alaskavett]

Tom,
not sure what the value of the frame would be, but it could be a bit I'm sure. Perhaps we could work a trade for a J frame or a K frame I own as I would love to have a A.F. marked gun due to my many years of A.F. service. Kyle

 

[Hondo44]

Is it possible that the British marked barrel is for the 38 S&W (38-200) with its oversize bore for the of 38 S&W Special?

Which Cartridge marking is on the barrel?

What length is the barrel?

I would go with your idea to get her a newer J frame. And get that AF gun into the hands of some one like Kyle who would appreciate it for its historical significance.

 

[epj]

Unless she's an expert shot, get her a K frame vs a J frame. Much easier for most to shoot well.

 

[opoefc]

Several things going for you here. What is causing the inaccuracy? Wrong barrel ? As said above, an incorrect 38/200 barrel can be a problem. Correct replacement parts should not be a problem, but incorrect - yes. The interior parts will seldom cause problems, if correct, so figure out what parts are causing the problems and get the correct parts in place and the gun may be good to go. If that route is not likely, then the market value if an intact AirCrewman frame is around $250 to $350 range. That's what I have been paying for de milled specimens that can be restored. Having said that you say your sister wants to learn to shoot, so I assume she has little experience with handgun shooting. Starting off with an air weight gun in .38 Special is not recommended as the recoil can be intimidating to a new shooter. Start her with something like a nice K 22, which is very accurate and a delight to learn how to shoot. When she is comfortable with that, move up to larger calibers. Ed.

 

[JSR III]

I agree with the senior senator from California. Either a K-22 for a revolver or a Model 41 for a semi automatic. My daughters learned on both and enjoyed shooting them immensely as kids. Once she becomes comfortable with the .22 and guns in general, then and only then would I go to larger calibers.

One of my wifes early shooting experiences was with a Lady Smith in .38 special and she did not care for it at all.

 

[DWalt]

I'll second the .22 idea. Some women tend to get gun-shy after shooting anything larger. I started my wife on a .38 Special K-frame many years ago, and that was not a good idea for someone who had never fired a handgun before. She is OK with a .22 Ruger semiauto, but to this day refuses to use anything larger.

 

[The Gila Bender]

More info:
Frame, cylinder, and sideplate do not attract a magnet.
Barrel is steel, 2.25 inches. British markings on barrel flat only. No stamps on barrel top or sides.
Cylinder has no serial number stamp at faces. Stamped "4379" at the extractor star recess.
Extractor star is steel, also stamped "4379"
Yoke is steel, stamped "5424"
Frame assembly number at the yoke is "40472"
Stocks stamped "365637"
Proof mark "P" stamped just below and front of cylinder window.
No other significant markings other than top strap and rear grip strap.

 

[The Gila Bender]

After looking at this Aircrewman for over a year, and after showing it to a few knowledgeable individuals, I have decided to look for a correct barrel. I have no intention of shooting it.

Our good friend, opoefc, offered this information last year: "Your sister's AC falls in the mid range of the production and has certain features (Stampings, etc. ) different from other ACs with higher or lower serials. For example, The correct barrel stampings say only "Smith & Wesson" and ".38 Special" - No Aircrewman, or Airweight stampings on barrel. So a detailed & correct restoration means it needs parts from the same serial range."

The hunt begins!

BTW- My sister has been taking instruction and practicing with a Victory that was refurbished and fitted with a 4" Model 10 barrel and ramp sight at S&W in 1980. She likes it.

 

[murphydog]

Yes, the right barrel should be stamped ".38 S & W SPL." Good luck in your search.

 

[The Gila Bender]

I found a 2" blue barrel #C294581 on GB and am having it installed. The gun will be professionally serviced and restored to operable condition. Though I do not intend to shoot it, except perhaps with wax bullets if they can be found, it will be a nice example of the Aircrewman, albeit restored with non-matching parts. Photos in a few weeks....

 

[The Gila Bender]

Aircrewman new barrel installed.

OK, it's done.
Period barrel installed, internals cleaned, and about as safe as an M13 can be. Keeping in mind that the only two numbers that match on this M13 are the cylinder and extractor star, it's about as good as it's going to get.
Not bad for a wall hanger....

 

[Hondo44]

Bravo for bringing that one back to reasonable restoration.

In your fist post you mentioned the side plate may not be original to the frame. But that can be verified by the assembly # stamped on its inside surface, if it matches the one in the frame yoke.

 

[murphydog]

Cool rehab project! Most of the ones I've seen had the property rollmark partially or completely removed from the backstrap. A few wax bullet loads with primers sounds like a fun idea. Enjoy!

 

[The Gila Bender]

Bravo for bringing that one back to reasonable restoration.

In your fist post you mentioned the side plate may not be original to the frame. But that can be verified by the assembly # stamped on its inside surface, if it matches the one in the frame yoke.

Yes, I checked the inside of the aluminum side plate. The number (5870) does not match the frame yoke (40472).. And, there is a notch for an upper sideplate screw. Clearly not original or correct. But, it's as close as I can get for the moment.

 

[usm1rifle]

VERY nice conclusion to a worthwhile project!

 

[Hondo44]

Yes, I checked the inside of the aluminum side plate. The number (5870) does not match the frame yoke (40472).. And, there is a notch for an upper sideplate screw. Clearly not original or correct. But, it's as close as I can get for the moment.

Did the sideplate # match the yoke arm assembly number?

Does the yoke arm SERIAL # (on its rear face looking thru one chamber with a flashlight) match either the cylinder/extractor star # or the frame serial # on the butt?

Oh well, the notch for the upper screw is a dead giveaway. Might be easier and less expensive to drill and tap the frame to add the top sideplate screw, than finding another sideplate.

 

[The Gila Bender]

Hondo44:
"Did the sideplate # match the yoke arm assembly number?"
No, the sideplate assembly number (5870) does not match the frame yoke assembly number (40472).

"Does the yoke arm SERIAL # (on its rear face looking thru one chamber with a flashlight) match either the cylinder/extractor star # or the frame serial # on the butt?"
No again, the yoke arm (crane) assembly number is 5424, the serial number is 259839. The cylinder and extractor star are numbered 4379.

I've seen "mixmaster" Garands before, but this one is a doozy! I'm reminded of the scene in "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" when Tuco assembles a single revolver from parts of several other revolvers.

 

[linde]

Yes, I checked the inside of the aluminum side plate. The number (5870) does not match the frame yoke (40472).. And, there is a notch for an upper sideplate screw. Clearly not original or correct. But, it's as close as I can get for the moment.

Assuming your statement that the sideplate is "as close as I can get for the moment" suggests you might consider a period-correct sideplate and . . . at the risk of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory from a great effort . . . I have a (3-screw) airweight sideplate that came from either a pre-12 or 12-2 that I have no use for.

And we are coming to Arizona in early March . . . we'll be in Phoenix at Indian Market at the Heard Museum March 5th & 6th and in Mesa attending the Crossroads gun show on March 12th & 13th.

If you're interested, I can send pictures and then bring it with me to Arizona next month.

Russ

edit to add: or I can just mail it to you and let you do a trial fitting

 

[Hondo44]

Hondo44:
"Did the sideplate # match the yoke arm assembly number?"
No, the sideplate assembly number (5870) does not match the frame yoke assembly number (40472).

"Does the yoke arm SERIAL # (on its rear face looking thru one chamber with a flashlight) match either the cylinder/extractor star # or the frame serial # on the butt?"
No again, the yoke arm (crane) assembly number is 5424, the serial number is 259839. The cylinder and extractor star are numbered 4379.

I've seen "mixmaster" Garands before, but this one is a doozy! I'm reminded of the scene in "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" when Tuco assembles a single revolver from parts of several other revolvers.

View attachment 225804

That is amazing, and truly a mixmaster. When one makes a count, the gun has parts from six different guns, that's every major part and it could only be more if the cyl and extractor star didn't match, making it seven different guns. I have an extractor star I can send you if you'd like to make it seven, a new record!