OK, I watch too much news and most of it is not good! I've been a wheel gun guy forever with the exception of my old 1911. I'm beginning to feel out classed and way under gunned. So I'm starting to look at something that will shoot more than 6xs. I'm thinking about an AK-47 type rifle with an underfolder stock. But I have never shot one, so I need schooling on the best type/brand. This will be for defending home and country. What are my options? Who makes the best most reliable gun.
AK-47
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canoeguy
US Veteran
I have had several, Egyptian, Bulgarian, Chinese, all were good with the exception of rifles imported into the United States as stripped receivers, then have cheaply made trigger parts installed here in the U.S.
I had to have quality trigger parts installed in my Egyptian AK when the trigger failed in a dramatic fashion, the trigger pivot pin backed out and allowed all the trigger parts to come loose inside the rifle, leaving it locked up with a round chambered.
So, if I were to buy one today, I'd get one that was imported with all stock trigger parts, such as a Chinese Norinco. The Norinco underfolder is nice, though not currently imported, you would have to find a used one.
I had to have quality trigger parts installed in my Egyptian AK when the trigger failed in a dramatic fashion, the trigger pivot pin backed out and allowed all the trigger parts to come loose inside the rifle, leaving it locked up with a round chambered.
So, if I were to buy one today, I'd get one that was imported with all stock trigger parts, such as a Chinese Norinco. The Norinco underfolder is nice, though not currently imported, you would have to find a used one.
I agree with the above. To be sure of getting a good AK you would
want to find an early import and they aren't cheap for obvious reasons.
The AR 15 is extremely popular today and prices are very reasonable
right now. Buy any brand with a good reputation and quality is pretty
well assured. Part of their popularity is no doubt due to the lack of
competition from quality imports but reliability seems to be excellent.
Plenty of ammo and quality mags and accessories are available.
want to find an early import and they aren't cheap for obvious reasons.
The AR 15 is extremely popular today and prices are very reasonable
right now. Buy any brand with a good reputation and quality is pretty
well assured. Part of their popularity is no doubt due to the lack of
competition from quality imports but reliability seems to be excellent.
Plenty of ammo and quality mags and accessories are available.
Collo Rosso
Member
I've owned a Bulgy, a Yugo and a Saiga I converted to AK form. Fun bullet hoses for cheap. Problem is they're not cheap anymore nor is the 7.62x39 ammo. The military surplus is long gone. For the same money as a good AK you can get a good AR now. Parts and accessories for AR's is plentiful (yes, AK's too) and 5.56 ammo is priced at 7.62x39 levels.
For me personally I much prefer the AR and just wanted to bring it up before your sold on AK's.
For me personally I much prefer the AR and just wanted to bring it up before your sold on AK's.
CATI1835
US Veteran
Century Arms offers an American made AK underfolder, as well as other variations. They seem to be generally well reviewed. The underfolder is the AK-63D. I am considering one myself. There might be some long term advantage to an American rifle with US made magazines...
I have a Yugo and I like the gun. It is fun to shoot but not made for all day range sessions. There are ways to make it better like a butt stock pad and a cheek weld piece that slides onto the stock but for all day shooting a traditional stock is the way to go.
The other thing is that Yugos do not have a chrome lined barrel.
If I were getting a AK47 for defense I would look at an Arsenal Side Folder. It will be a high quality build with a side folder which is much better for actual shooting. It is pricey but it is an excellent weapon.
Arsenal SLR107FR-31 762x39 Side Folding Rifle
The other thing is that Yugos do not have a chrome lined barrel.
If I were getting a AK47 for defense I would look at an Arsenal Side Folder. It will be a high quality build with a side folder which is much better for actual shooting. It is pricey but it is an excellent weapon.
Arsenal SLR107FR-31 762x39 Side Folding Rifle
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
Bullpup designs are being carried by security forces everywhere. Something like the 5.56 Tavor carries even smaller than than a folded stock AR, yet can still be shouldered without unfolding anything. There is also a 9mm kit for it. I've handled it and it feels good. Well balanced and fast pointing. Another option to chew on.
BTW... Our local Academy Sports has a Tavor, and its priced well.
BTW... Our local Academy Sports has a Tavor, and its priced well.
I own several ak's and they are very reliable and fun to shoot.I do not remember any malfunction with them.I cannot say the same about my ar15s.I would stay away from American made ak's they do not have a good reputation.I like my underfolder but you can not get a cheek weld.So it takes a little getting used to.
Arik
Member
Did someone mention AK?
If you have never shot an underfolder do so before buying. They look cool but shooting them is a love it or hate it thing. Personally I don't like it. The but portion of the stock doesn't fit into my shoulder well and I can either have it on one side of the metal oval or the other but not flat against my shoulder. The stock itself is thin metal. It's plenty thick for reliability use but once it's in your cheek you're going to feel the recoil in your cheek bone. Also there is no side rail because it gets in the way of the folder.
The best of both worlds would be a side folding polymer stock.
They don't all interchange but they all function the same. Like anything else, if built right they will function properly.
Problems with the Egyptian MADI was that 1) Egypt never really built top notch rifles 2) many that were sold were actually MISR90. Which was basically Chinese and Egyptian parts that Century force fit together to make one rifle. Those were problematic.
You don't need to find an early import. Arsenal still imports from Bulgaria, Century imports from Romania, Vepr from Russia.
There is really too much to list as far as what's good and bad. Most current "made in the US" rifles use cast trunions from Korea. Quality???? IO has had their share of cracked trunions from unknown (to us) suppliers. Very few US made barrels are worth the price. One guy on another forum just shot out his barrel after a little over 6k rounds.
If you have never shot an underfolder do so before buying. They look cool but shooting them is a love it or hate it thing. Personally I don't like it. The but portion of the stock doesn't fit into my shoulder well and I can either have it on one side of the metal oval or the other but not flat against my shoulder. The stock itself is thin metal. It's plenty thick for reliability use but once it's in your cheek you're going to feel the recoil in your cheek bone. Also there is no side rail because it gets in the way of the folder.
The best of both worlds would be a side folding polymer stock.
They don't all interchange but they all function the same. Like anything else, if built right they will function properly.
Problems with the Egyptian MADI was that 1) Egypt never really built top notch rifles 2) many that were sold were actually MISR90. Which was basically Chinese and Egyptian parts that Century force fit together to make one rifle. Those were problematic.
You don't need to find an early import. Arsenal still imports from Bulgaria, Century imports from Romania, Vepr from Russia.
There is really too much to list as far as what's good and bad. Most current "made in the US" rifles use cast trunions from Korea. Quality???? IO has had their share of cracked trunions from unknown (to us) suppliers. Very few US made barrels are worth the price. One guy on another forum just shot out his barrel after a little over 6k rounds.
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Flattop5
Member
The Yugo under-folder is very good. I have one. It's hard to beat. If I was in the market for a good under-folder, that's what I'd buy. They cost around $600.00.
Here's a photo of a Yugo:
ak002-1.jpg Photo by aristotle133 | Photobucket
Here's some more info:
Yugo M70AB2 AK Style Semi Auto Rifle, 7.62x39, with Underfolder Stock, Grenade Sight.
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Here's a photo of a Yugo:
ak002-1.jpg Photo by aristotle133 | Photobucket
Here's some more info:
Yugo M70AB2 AK Style Semi Auto Rifle, 7.62x39, with Underfolder Stock, Grenade Sight.
----------------
I have had good luck with my Romanian underfolder as far as function and reliability go. I am pleased with the construction as well. As for anything less than a full stock, heed the advice already stated above. They are not fun 'range guns' without a full stock, but certainly serve well for other purposes. As with most other things, define for yourself what your use and needs will be and buy accordingly. The best one I ever had was a Russian milled receiver that I picked up, and actually used, in SEA. Sadly it is long gone. It is on my growing list of things that I should never have sold.
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
My-Ohh-My Arik, looks like your ready for the black helicopters. 
You seem to be getting plenty of good advice on AKs from folks who know way more than me on that subject. My choice for a auto loader rifle is the Mini-14. Anyway, I don't understand why you feel outgunned or in adequate with a collection of wheel guns and a 1911. If you need more firepower for self defense, I'd recommend a high capacity auto pistol like the S&W M&P 9 or .40. My carry gun is usually a .38 or .44 five shooter.
BigBill
Absent Comrade
The Russian Izmash Saiga in 223 / 308win would be my choice. The 223 / 308 rounds in the Saiga are more accurate over the 7.62x39 Russian. Anything norinco manufacturers is ok too. Norinco 1911, AK's and M14's. If you want a semi auto in 7.62x39 the sks is tops.
I still prefer the 100 year old Swedish 6.5mm mauser for there long distance accuracy. One shot one death.
I still prefer the 100 year old Swedish 6.5mm mauser for there long distance accuracy. One shot one death.
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All handguns are outgunned by semi-auto rifles, simply a matter of ease of use and being able to hit what you are aiming at.7.62 X 39 vs 9mm, 30 rds vs 15. A good functioning AK/AR both would work. If you want tula ammo price is about the same. Options for both are available. AR's are at the lowest price in recent memory, while good AK's are at their peak ( short of panic mode). Many underfolders are uncomfortable to shoot, side folding stock AR/AK's seem to be more comfortable. Tula ammo with " bi-metal" bullets will eat your barrel. There is a post of someone who did the testing with "bi-metal" bullets in AR's somewhere in the forum. If you truly want to be prepared go to a Hydra from MGI. You can change barrels, mags, mag wells, and go from 22 lr to 458 socom, with a 16" barrel it fits in a thick briefcase. See if any friends have something you can try before you buy. I have various AK/AR, prefer romanians/ DPMS, but the options are endless. I would do it now( soon) before the election cycle hits full steam. Be Safe,
Slufstuff
SWCA Member
I am not knocking AK's, if that is what you want. But I recommend getting a good quality AR15. Right now, prices on AR's are about as low as they are likely to ever be. There are many good models out there, but right now I would recommend getting a Colt 6920 M4 carbine. They are readily available on-line for under $800.00 lately. I have seen them as low as $750.00. True mil-spec quality, with great re-sale value, if that is of any importance to you.
samnev
Member
I completely agree with the above. Having at one time or the other owned most of the pre ban and post ban AK's except for the pre ban Valmet 62 none of them were accurate enough for me and except for 1 Arsenal all are gone replaced by Ar 15's.
Flattop5
Member
I agree. The big downside to an AK is that they aren't that accurate. If you want good accuracy, get an AR15 (a Colt or a BCM, and don't use crappy Russian ammo in it, either. Also, you must keep an AR15 clean, unlike an AK, which seems to like dirt and grime
). ---------------
hkcavalier
US Veteran
Agree with the previous posters! Ten years ago, when a decent AR was $700 and AKs were $250 (and the ammo was half the price or less) it was a good way to go. Heck SKSes were $100 or less. Hard to beat.
There are some features of the AK platform that can be taken advantage of. I'm currently building an AK pistol (Zastava PAP M92) with a folding SIG brace. 7.62x39 doesn't lose as much pop as a 5.56x45 out of the shorter barrel and of course the AK doesn't need a buffer tube which makes the folding part possible. A compact (albeit heavy) package with a lot of firepower that someone with a CPL in my state can carry loaded in their car. An aftermarket trigger and grip plus a 2 point sling and it'll be done.
If you're into full sized rifles I'd look into the Veprs in .308 or 7.62x54R.
There are some features of the AK platform that can be taken advantage of. I'm currently building an AK pistol (Zastava PAP M92) with a folding SIG brace. 7.62x39 doesn't lose as much pop as a 5.56x45 out of the shorter barrel and of course the AK doesn't need a buffer tube which makes the folding part possible. A compact (albeit heavy) package with a lot of firepower that someone with a CPL in my state can carry loaded in their car. An aftermarket trigger and grip plus a 2 point sling and it'll be done.
If you're into full sized rifles I'd look into the Veprs in .308 or 7.62x54R.
