Alvin York Earns MOH on 10/08/1918

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A hundred years ago today. We have had some good discussions about WWI recently and I thought this might start another one.

There is an interesting segment on CSPAN regarding the search for the actual site where Sgt. York earned his MOH. I noted that in the discussion, the military historian (Brad Posey) referred to the "Enfield Rifle" York used. There has been some controversy as to whether Sgt. York carried an M1903 or M1917 rifle. I would like to hear what Mr. Posey has to say on the subject. At least there seems to be a consensus that his sidearm was an M1911 pistol, not an M1917 revolver.

Alvin York World War Battle Location, Sep 25 2018 | Video | C-SPAN.org

The above inspired me to order the book below. Has anyone read it and have any comments?

51jy-JuGwHL.jpg

[ame="https://www.amazon.com/Hero-Western-Front-Discovering-Battlefield/dp/1526700751"]Amazon.com: Hero on the Western Front: Discovering Alvin York's WWI Battlefield (9781526700759): Michael Kelly: Books[/ame]
 
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I have read that one or more of his sons said he was armed with an M1903. To me, it's a handier rifle than an M1917. But sometimes the American Rifleman is off base on these things. As far as I know, Sgt. York never wrote anything about what rifle he used.

I remember an article in the AR in which the author claimed to have found the location of Sgt. York's MOH exploits. I searched the NRA website and can't find the article. Brad Posey disagrees with that assertion. I'll know more about Posey's research when I get the book.
 
One of Sgt. York's sons was a state park ranger at the York Grist Mill in Pall Mall, TN. I believe that he was the person who verified that his dad carried a 1903 Springfield.

There is no doubt that the All American Division (82nd) was issued 1917 Enfields when they were sent over seas. York, according to his son, acquired the 1903 from a Marine unit that was camped near his company by midnight requisition.

It seems that York may have qualified with the 03' at Camp Gordon and preferred it over the Enfield. It is also interesting to note that the statute of Sgt. York, on the grounds of the state capital, in Nashville, depicts him holding and firing a 1903 from the standing position.

The movie, Sargent York, is very close to actual events as York was very involved and personally selected Gary Cooper to portray him. An interesting and powerful character during and after WWI. He was personally responsible for many improvements in educational and medical facilities in Fentress County, TN.

The cemetary where he and Mrs. Gracie are buried is well marked and cared for by locals. Pall Mall, TN is not on the "beaten path" and takes some effort and determination to see but, is worth the effort if one is so incliined.
 
sheepdawg said:
York'son said his father carried a m1903 according to an interview in American Rifleman. He preferred the 03's sights and finding one wasn't hard.
Click to expand...

Just watched the Mysteries at the Museum piece on Sgt. York. Apparently the weaponry in York's outfit was quite diverse. The reenactment featured M1 Garands, M1 Carbines and... flintlock muskets! :D

Usual Mysteries accuracy... :rolleyes:
 
I prefer shooting my sweeter Model1917 Enfield at the range, than my 1903 O3A3 Springfield; because the Model1917 feels heavier (9.187 lb empty) & with a longer sight radius (46.3 in.), which absorbs more recoil over the Springfield (8.7 lb) - (length 43.2 in).

Yet I heard a story about the director of the Sergeant York 1941 movie...that wanted Gary Cooper to be filmed carrying the 1903 Springfield instead of the Enfield, because the Springfield was not as "ugly looking" as the Enfield.

Anyway...here's the movie:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsGD_At6QRg[/ame]
 
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My take has it that during his doughboy stint during World War 1...Sergeant York used the Model1917 and a 1911 pistol against the Germans. The Model1917 was also easier to aim --- imho --- because it used a rear ladder peep sight, compared to the rear leaf V or U sight of the 1903 Springfield.

The Luger P08 was used by Gary Cooper in the movie, because the M1911 was was too difficult to shoot blanks, compared to the Luger P08.

Source:

Doughboy's Rifle

Sergeant York - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games
 
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The story about the M-1911 and blanks is probably true. Stacy Keach used a Star or Llama 9mm or .38 Super in, Mike Hammer scenes that required him to actually fire "Betsy", his .45 auto.

But in, The Lost World, I think Lord Roxton (played by Will Snow) fired his Colt. I got a close look at the gun on the former official fan board, and it was a M-1911A-1 style, not the 1911 appropriate for the show's setting, from 1919-1922.

You could also see Webley MK IV .38's, not made until 1927. I think they stood in for Webley MK VI .455's, although Roxton's own Webleys with white grips were actual MK VI's. I suspect the prop house in Australia was short of the authentic guns. Prof. Challenger seemed to have a Colt SAA or Uberti repro, but one guy subbed a Ruger Blackhawk for one! The sights gave it away.
 
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Erno86 said:
My take has it that during his doughboy stint during World War 1...Sergeant York used the Model1917 and a 1911 pistol against the Germans. The Model1917 was also easier to aim --- imho --- because it used a rear ladder peep sight, compared to the rear leaf V or U sight of the 1903 Springfield.

The Luger P08 was used by Gary Cooper in the movie, because the M1911 was was too difficult to shoot blanks, compared to the Luger P08.

Source:

Doughboy's Rifle

Sergeant York - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games
Click to expand...

Although his unit had been issued 1917 Enfields, York is said to have acquired a 1903 Springfield on his own because he preferred the sights over those on the Enfield (the Enfield's sights cannot be adjusted readily for windage).

John
 
It was on my bucket list to visit Sgt. York's grave in Pall Mall, it sure is not on on the beaten path but very much worth the effort to pay tribute to this great American Hero.

Lying beside him is another hero, one of his sons was a LEO and was killed in the line of duty.
 
FWIW, my maternal grandfather was gassed in France in June 1918 after a February deployment - I have a photo of him with his 1917, the substitute standard. I understand the stripper clips were interchangeable, but don't know.
 
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biku324 said:
FWIW, my maternal grandfather was gassed in France in June 1918 after a February deployment - I have a photo of him with his 1917, the substitute standard. I understand the stripper clips we're interchangeable, but don't know.
Click to expand...

The M1917 can be loaded with five rounds from the same stripper clips used for the M1903. Interestingly, the magazine of the '17 will accommodate six rounds. I once talked with a WWI vet who told me he always topped that magazine off with an extra round.

John
 
PALADIN85020 said:
The M1917 can be loaded with five rounds from the same stripper clips used for the M1903. Interestingly, the magazine of the '17 will accommodate six rounds. I once talked with a WWI vet who told me he always topped that magazine off with an extra round.

John
Click to expand...

I met a man at the club range that had the British (pattern 14) in of course .303. He was surprised to see me able to load 6 in my American 1917. I told him those fancy big rings cost you room to put in 6, then with a :) I said better of buying American!
 
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