American Flag Rant

[ingmansinc]

Originally posted by KKG:

Originally posted by ingmansinc: ...When local LEO do not enforce the laws of our country I will take it upon myself to do so...

Well, it seems that I missed the part where you called 911 OR where you contacted the Mall owner; before, you took it upon yourself to <STRIKE>remove</STRIKE> Steal the Flag in question.

Oh, and I don't know of any law that requires any individual to fly the US Flag at time or for any reason. So, for my money those people weren't doing anything wrong by not flying the US Flag.

KKG, I am not trying to start a fight with you and it is obvious that we don't agree on this matter at all. However, I didn't say anyone were required to fly a flag, but if they do they must fly it within the parameters of the law. Therefore am I any more of a criminal for removing it than the person who displays it in tatters?

 

[Guest]

Therefore am I any more of a criminal for removing it than the person who displays it in tatters?

Maybe not any more but just as much. And, if you had been caught they'd have a whole lot easier time of it in Court than you would. That much I do believe.

There were other things you could and I believe should have done first.

 

[roarindan]

I for one aint skeered of standing up for my Country's Flag,,,matter of fact I have already told the mayor of the town the flag needed to be replaced (she thanked me and said she has people that are susposed to be watching for that),I jumped my wifes'boss about the condition of the flag in front of the building,she made a halfass excuse about nobody around to remove it, I said "well dont worry,I'll take care of it" went outside and removed the tattered flag.Guess I was the talk of the shop for a few weeks cause I showed some respect.
Everywhere I go I look at the flag and an NOT ashamed to "make a spectical"of myself demanding the flag be shown respect!!!!
Theres a flag outside my home,, and YES it is lighted at night,

 

[Guest]

Mine flies 24/7 as it did while I was "In Country" because it is my belief that a "State of War" continues and I don't see any end in sight. But, it also doesn't take much wear for me to bring it down and replace it.

 

[oldfella]

Mine flies on a 16 foot pole in front of my house 24 hours a day, 7 days a week as well, and proud of it!

Pete

 

[ditrina]

quote:
Therefore am I any more of a criminal for removing it than the person who displays it in tatters?

The short answer yes.. The flag "Code" is just that..a code.. it is not law.. there is no "Flag Police" there is no federal agency that monitors flag violations

"Are there penalties for violating the Flag Code?"

No. The Flag Code serves as a guide to be followed on a purely voluntary basis to insure proper respect for the flag. The Supreme Court has ruled that politically motivated violations of the Flag Code are protected by the First Amendment.

The Flag Code has no provision for enforcement. No fines, no penalties. There is nothing law enforcement can do when the Flag Code is broken.

It is however a pride and moral issue.

 

[CelticSire]

Originally posted by Kitgun:
Why worry about the flag? The Country it represented no longer exists.

And attitudes like yours are the reason why. It's so much easier to whine than act, isn't it?

 

[ingmansinc]

The original post has evolved and I have learned some things that I didn't know and have changed my view on some things because of the comments here by fellow forum members.

1) I really didn't consider the fact that the flag of south viet nam is a piece of history as it represents a country that no longer exists.
2) I was not aware that there are no legal penalties in place to enforce our nations flag code.
3) And finally I am glad that the army vet in Reno and myself weren't arrested for theft when we did what we thought was just and right.

Now, as is so often true, if enough people discuss an issue we can learn from the knowledge of those combined opinions.

On a much more important note lets direct our thoughts to the "little girl Abbie" who so desperately need support.

 

[TNDixieGirl]

The short answer yes.. The flag "Code" is just that..a code.. it is not law..

Actually, the US codes are laws.

The United States Code is the codification by subject matter of the general and permanent laws of the United States. It is divided by broad subjects into 50 titles and published by the Office of the Law Revision Counsel of the U.S. House of Representatives. Since 1926, the United States Code has been published every six years. In between editions, annual cumulative supplements are published in order to present the most current information.

 

[handejector]

Actually, the US codes are laws.

I agree, Dixie. However, I doubt we will see much enforcement. We wouldn't want to "offend" someone, nor deny them their "right" to deface the flag of, or insult the nation they are sucking dry.
Respect for the Flag and the National Anthem are pet peeves of mine. People are no longer concerned with the simple etiquette I was taught as a youngster. I see people remain seated, hats on, when the Anthem is played, and I find it disgusting.
For those who don't already know, when the Anthem is played-

If in uniform, face the flag, at attention, render hand salute till the end of the music. If no flag is visible, face the source of the music. If no source for the music is apparent, face north.
Same thing for civilians, except males should remove your hat, and hold it over your heart. If no hat, place right hand over your heart. Ladies should remain covered, hand over heart.

I have no problem with the South Vietnamese flag being flown in proper memorial applications.
I have a big problem with any foreign flag being flown on US soil that is flown without a US Flag above it. That, to me, indicates OCCUPATION of sovreign US Territory by foreign HOSTILES!
If someone must fly a foreign flag, I would suggest flying it on the soil it represents.

To those of you who have taken steps to insure respect for, or proper treatment of the Flag- THANKS, and well done.

 

[CelticSire]

Originally posted by TNDixieGirl:
Actually, the US codes are laws.

Yes, US Codes are laws. In some instances, such as the Code governing flag etiquette, there are no penalties for violations, so it becomes a "law without teeth",as the expression goes.

 

[Guest]

ALL violations of Federal Codes have penalties but many of them are not directly part of the particular Code. The same thing is true in most States in reference to their Traffic Codes. Certain Traffic Violations(DUI, Reckless, Vehicle Homicide etc.) have certain penalties and are listed separately while the rest are covered under a "blanket penalty" and the Flag Codes come under this Blanket Penalty. I don't know what it is now but at one time it was one year and 5K in 'possible' fines. But, this kind of thing would come under the FBI(or at least it used to) and they are pretty busy right at the moment.

If you want to press the issue contact the Justice Department.

As I said earlier, contact the owner of the Flag and make your feeling known. If that doesn't work then bring out your video camera and tape the whole thing and try sending it to your local News Paper or TV Station or Senator or Representative or Governor or ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!

It seems the gentleman in RENO got the Attention of his local News folks and got the job done! And, he had the Documentation to show that what he was doing was done for a good reason.

 

[11B Lifer]

Take action where and when you can. But the truth is that the respect and reverence is in your heart-and no one can take it away. My retirement comprised a command retreat-the last time I would be in uniform and participate in retreat. Now I work on post, and on occasion I'll go out and and watch the color guard. No one can stop me from saluting the flag. My kids have been brought up that way also. And I taught them how to shoot at an earley age-and my son turned into a terrorist killer.
If you look at military awards for valor-the ribbons are red, white a blue. They represent little pieces of the flag-there are exceptions such as the Navy Cross with its Navy Blue ribbon.

 

[Muley Gil]

ingmansinc,

Here's a thought. Why don't you contact the person or group that flys that flag and talk to them about the flag code. Unlike many from south of the border, most Asian immigrants are here legally and love this country and the opportunities it has given them.

There's nothing wrong with being proud of where you came from, so long as you respect where you are.

 

[ingmansinc]

Originally posted by Muley Gil:
ingmansinc,

Here's a thought. Why don't you contact the person or group that flys that flag and talk to them about the flag code. Unlike many from south of the border, most Asian immigrants are here legally and love this country and the opportunities it has given them.

There's nothing wron with being proud of where you came from, so long as you respect where you are.

I didn't think I would find myself back here having this discussion, but here we are and I would like to say thanks for the suggestion. I also would like to believe that the people responsible for flying the south vietnam flag on a pole by itself don't know any better and probably will try to find out who they and talk to them. I still find it amazing that in a city of approximately two million people that that flag has been there for over two years and I appear to be the only person that thinks it should be flown under the American flag. I will make the contact and let you know the result.

Semper Fi