An issue… help me out with this. Elephant hunting?

[Model29-26.5]

Love my collection of Smiths and this new hobby of mine.
I’m not a hunter, but I get hunting for meat. Venison etc.
Stick it in the freezer for the season.
To the point.. I’d been watching various YouTube vids. Collections, gunsmithing etc.
Love Larry Potterfield and his expertise, passion for what he does.
He’s built an empire and seems to have come from the ground up and knows a lot about a lot all things firearms.
I watched an interview where he said he enjoyed hunting elephant.
I guess I have an issue with sport hunting.. especially when it’s a beautiful creature like this, or big game..
I’d like to understand it more but I can’t at this point.
I try to have an open mind..
Help me out here..

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Basically you shoot a elephant and the local village eats well for a year.

A friend at my Church when to Uganda as a Missionary. Many places outside the big cities in Africa is still in the Stone Age.

 

[s&wchad]

You pay big money to harvest an elephant and you can't bring the tusks home. The meat goes to local villages and the proceeds support their economy, or more likely the ruling officials.

It's not the same world anymore...

I've got an appropriate gun if you want to go.

You can borrow it if returned it in the same condition and bring me back a foot stool and an ear...

 

[Model29-26.5]

Ah. Ok. Yep. A lot of much needed meat I guess. So no different really than farming in terms of ethics.

 

[mchom]

Some Ivory harvested in Africa is importable…

Over population of Elephant is a serious problem in several African countries. There is an age range that African elephant reach where they can no longer eat due to basically degraded teeth.
Resulting in an unpleasant death essentially to starvation.

Take a peek at some of the African Hunting forums for more knowledgeable explanation.

I’d like hunt Cape Buffalo but I myself would pass on Elephant.
It’s obviously a majestic animal and shooting and killing one is a bittersweet experience to me at least.

But I understand it must be done with regard to game management. There is a long list of positives least of which is money to fund protection from poaching.

 

[Frailer]

Hunting game is literally in our nature. It is what allowed our ancestors to build big brains, which then allowed us to develop agriculture, settle down in one place, and build a civilization so advanced that we can now spend the majority of our time arguing online with great fervor over whether toast should be butter side up or down.

If the drive to hunt is real and if doing so for sport is an acceptable activity it follows that one could feel compelled to hunt the largest and/or most dangerous of creatures.

I grew up reading the writings of Capstick and his like, and as a youth I fantasized about going on safari. As a younger adult demands of work and family kept me from doing so, but now that I am blessed with the time and resources to actually follow through with this dream I find I no longer have the desire.

I have no problem with killing things that need killing. I eat meat with relish, and earlier this week I took pleasure in sitting on my back porch with a .22 while I waited for a rat to pop its head out of my wife’s flower bed (he did, and he paid the consequences). I have no problem with those who hunt for trophies, so long as the rest of the carcass is put to constructive use, but it is not an activity I am interested in participating in.

Well…I say I have no problem with trophy hunting, but in the spirit of total honesty, I do judge those who pay large sums of money for the privilege of hunting the big cats. I find this borderline reprehensible, but I suppose that’s a “me problem.”

 

[Bullet Bob]

Germany has recently proposed bans on the import of hunting trophies.

The President of Botswana, which is about the size of Texas, offered to send 20,000 spare wild elephants they had roaming around to Germany so they could match their caring words with action. So far, no takers.

Of the approximately 450,000 elephants currently living in Africa, Botswana has approximately 132,000.

 

[Bald1]

Hunting game is literally in our nature. It is what allowed our ancestors to build big brains, which then allowed us to develop agriculture, settle down in one place, and build a civilization so advanced that we can now spend the majority of our time arguing online with great fervor over whether toast should be butter side up or down.

If the drive to hunt is real and if doing so for sport is an acceptable activity it follows that one could feel compelled to hunt the largest and/or most dangerous of creatures.

I grew up reading the writings of Capstick and his like, and as a youth I fantasized about going on safari. As a younger adult demands of work and family kept me from doing so, but now that I am blessed with the time and resources to actually follow through with this dream I find I no longer have the desire.

I have no problem with killing things that need killing. I eat meat with relish, and earlier this week I took pleasure in sitting on my back porch with a .22 while I waited for a rat to pop its head out of my wife’s flower bed (he did, and he paid the consequences). I have no problem with those who hunt for trophies, so long as the rest of the carcass is put to constructive use, but it is not an activity I am interested in participating in.

Well…I say I have no problem with trophy hunting, but in the spirit of total honesty, I do judge those who pay large sums of money for the privilege of hunting the big cats. I find this borderline reprehensible, but I suppose that’s a “me problem.”

I don’t think it’s a you problem. I think more people agree with you than you realize. Big Cats, Zebras, Giraffes…… there are some things I don’t get. I’m a hunter. I’ll always be a hunter. But I’ll never kill anything for the sake of killing it. If it’s causing property damage ok I understand that. But to kill something just to hang on the wall no way.

 

[Wyo]

Germany has recently proposed bans on the import of hunting trophies.

The President of Botswana, which is about the size of Texas, offered to send 20,000 spare wild elephants they had roaming around to Germany so they could match their caring words with action. So far, no takers.

Of the approximately 450,000 elephants currently living in Africa, Botswana has approximately 132,000.

Sort of like all those folks clutching their pearls and fretting about de-listing grizzlies so the State of Wyoming can open a hunting season. We have plenty of them, but no one has offered to take any of them home with them either. Funny how that works.

 

[Model29-26.5]

I appreciate everyone’s input on this.
I have always been opposed to sport hunting, myself, but I am open minded and want to hear the different takes from you guys on this here forum.
I know there are things I’m missing. Elephant meat to feed a village for a year is not something you’ll hear the opposing side talking about.
One needs every side of the story in order to understand anything.
Thanks for the input.

 

[old tanker]

Elephants also cause considerable crop damage. Is it not better to have some rich guy pay thousands of dollars to legally tag a problem animal tearing up some village's crops than for the government to pay a ranger to do it?

 

[M29since14]

I think “sport hunting” is a bit too general, for my taste, anyway. Let’s be more specific. Subsistence hunting is done as a matter of survival - needing food. Maybe a lot of antis confuse what I think of as sport hunting with trophy hunting. I was raised to abhor trophy hunting (killing an animal purely for hide, horns, antlers, etc.). A sport hunter, in my definition, is a combination of trophy hunter and hunter that takes pain to use as much of the animal as he can. I see no ethical problem with collecting the trophy, in that circumstance.

Sport hunting of elephants is not something I care to do. They do form a sort of familial society and are fascinating creatures. (Also can be destructive and very dangerous.) But as has been quite properly pointed to, when they age and are facing death naturally, from frailty, illness, injury, and/or starvation, or when it is necessary to control the population for various reasons, sport hunting makes more sense to me than “control” shooting of them. The cost is enormous, and concern over how and where the money is used is sensible. I could not justify it myself, but I would not demonize those who do. Check into the whole situation before making possibly unfounded conclusions.

 

[LittleAugieMo]

1Years ago in either Outdoor Life,Field and Stream orSports Afield I remember reading an article (can't remember who ther writer was) about Elephant hunting. Think the title was "I'll never Kill Another Elephant".Described shooting the last elephant he hunted/killed( an old Bull) and how the two young Bulls traveling with it reacted,staying with it and "mourning". This
wasn't his first elephant hunt but was,in his own words his last. Was a very moving storey.

 

[A10]

I believe all African countries that allow safari require the hunter hire a Professional Hunter. The PH accompanies the hunter at all times and directs the hunter which animal to take.

Hunting permits are let for destructive or dangerous (to humans) game. The fees paid go to animal conservation and supporting poaching prevention efforts. As stated, the game goes to feed the local population.

These aren't the safari's you saw in the Tarzan movies, or the ones from the last century and before where game was shot indiscriminately.

BTW, elephant leather is almost indestructible.

 

[margethatcher]

I always think of Elmer Keith flying up to the pole, shooting a huge polar bear and only taking I believe the head and paws back. Lost me as a fan then.

 

[Yendor357]

Who gets to decide there are too many elephants?
I’ll bet not the elephants.

 

[JRB416]

I'm far from an expert on this subject, but I have hunted Africa. I never hunted elephant but I've shared the bush and been rushed by them. At this point in my life I would not harvest one. I respect your opposition to hunting and believe our like or dislike is a product of where and how we grew up.

Where I hunted, tourism was the second or third largest gnp in that country. Land in large enough tracts to support large game was at a premium. Human encroachment was shrinking these areas at a staggering rate. Without the license and safari fees incurred by hunters to support concessions and government owned land what was left would likely have disappeared very quickly. I traveled though land that I was told supported large animals just ten years prior.

Something else I witnessed was poaching. Some of the poachers crossed boarders and it was a serious problem. One area I hunted had a small population of Black Rhino. These were truly wild and not on a preserve. Money can be very tight in some African countries and without a source of outside income for support, protection for these animals can wane. At that time one rhino horn or elephant tusk would bring on the black market more money than a local could earn in a year or more so the risk that poachers took was worth it to them. And although I would never condone it, I understand the need to feed themselves and their families.

It was interesting to talk and be with Professional Hunters in the bush, and they were a big part of trying to curb illegal poaching. We were always looking for poaching activity when I was there.

As someone else mentioned meat not used in camp was shared with hunting staff families or with natives if they were around. Meat was a VERY valued commodity where I was and nothing went to waste. Not even the tripe.

Just my limited experience.

 

[375hh1973]

You pay big money to harvest an elephant and you can't bring the tusks home. The meat goes to local villages and the proceeds support their economy, or more likely the ruling officials.

It's not the same world anymore...

I've got an appropriate gun if you want to go.

You can borrow it if returned it in the same condition and bring me back a foot stool and an ear...

As far as the tusks...

A buddy of mine who is a Dr shot a big bull elephant. Like you said, villagers got the meat, Doc got the memories but no tusks...

Except 6 months later I run into Doc at the gun club and he says, hey check this out- Pulls me aside, looks around all secretive and shows me a pic of his tusks in his trophy room.

When you got the $$$ everything is possible

 

[One Holer]

Surprises me as to the amount of replies from other non hunters that you received. Good on you for seeking to understand rather than just condem elephant hunting. I can only speak for myself, so let me just say that I have officially been a hunter since age 13 when I passed our state's hunter education class. However, I tagged along as an unlicensed little brother for years before that. I have never been elephant hunting, but read all of Peter Hathaway Captick's safari books and the tales of Karamojo Bell taking many old bulls with his little 7x57. As someone pointed out earlier, mankind has always hunted. Deep down those instincts are in all of us. While a lot of hunting today is simply waiting in a tree for a deer to come by so that you could shoot it from 100 yards or further away, elephant hunting back then usually required days of tracking a good bull, eventually catching up to the heard, then patiently stalking up to within feet of a heard bull without getting busted before letting loose with a heavy rifle. Many hunters, trackers, and guides paid the ultimate price when they were discovered before getting a shot off. The last 50 ft of the stalk must have been terrifying but exhilarating at the same time. It is in those final moments when you are within a few short yards of the prey that you feel more alive then you've ever felt. All your senses are on high alert. Your mouth is dry and you fear that your heart is beating so loud the game is going to hear it and spook at any second. Your vision, hearing, and even you sense of smell all seem to be at some ultra heighted level. You start to draw your bow but at the last second the game turns and looks right at you. You freeze, squint, and take your eyes off of the prey. Eventually the game calms down, flicks it's tail and continues eating. You come to full draw, release, your arrow flies true, and takes it right through the heart. The adrelin rush is so strong that after the shot, your hands start shaking. These are the moments I live for, and what keeps me coming back despite only being successful a fraction of the time. I think these feelings tie us to our ancestors and their stalks on game so many years ago.

 

[Model29-26.5]

Elephants also cause considerable crop damage. Is it not better to have some rich guy pay thousands of dollars to legally tag a problem animal tearing up some village's crops than for the government to pay a ranger to do it?

I hear you. I get it.
Again, not an argument you’ll hear from PETA