An urban protection rifle

[Jellybean]

I'm jumping on Gators bandwagon. I have several lever actions and like to shoot them more than most other long guns in my safes. But, in an "urban survival situation" they would be the last long guns I'd pull out.

And as far as the opinions of non gunners and black rifles, or EBRs, most of them don't know the difference and couldn't tell an M16 from a Red Ryder BB gun, a guns a gun and they hate, and fear, them all. It's an ignorance thing.

 

[Snapping Twig]

My computer, with all my photos is in the shop, so I can't post pics with this borrowed computer.

That said, I am on the same page with Gator. To this end, I recently bought 2 Marlin levers. First dalliance was a 1978 (pre safety, thin stock) 1894 in .44 mag and it shoots straight. This all around rifle is ideal and non threatening to the general public, but more importantly, it ups the velocity from a sedate 1200fps to 1700fps with a 265g cast bullet. That's some serious power. I mounted a Leupold 2x7 on it and I can not say enough about how pleased I am with it.

My second Marlin is a 45=70 Guide Gun. On this rifle I mounted ghost ring sights and a 2.5x scout scope with quick release rings.

Jeff Cooper would be proud of this rifle, it's truely a scout rifle and I would not hesitate to use it for such a purpose. 6 rounds in the magazine, one in the pipe and all of them 350 to 425grains of smashum.

I have a Mini 30 in a traditional but plastic stock. It is also a fine rifle for such uses. I load a 150g NBT @ 2100fps, that's a fantastic game getter. Probably work for SD too.

In any event, a short rifle of sufficient power is ideal for SD or hunting and as accurate as a lever is, you can reach out to @ 200 yards for that trophy.

 

[K1500]

I like levers, but I don't see the point of carrying a rifle platform and loading it with a handgun round. While the .44 Magnum is very effective in a rifle on the game fields, the .30 WCF is equally effective and can punch through intermediate barriers that a .44 cannot. This is not a concern while hunting, but it might be during the defensive/LEO application of the rifle. Make mine a .30 WCF.

 

[MTKTM]

Interesting thread, good stuff to think about. I have several so-called "assault rifles" and, like many, have thought of them as being useful tools in a home-defense context or in a SHTF situation. If the latter were to occur, a major social disruption/breakdown, I'm not likely to be as concerned with the political correctness aspects of using a black-rifle versus a lever gun. I also own a couple of the latter, a pair of Marlins, one a 45/70 Guide Gun and the other an 1894 in 357. It does strike me that the latter might make a good general HD gun for something short of a SHTF situation, might raise fewer eyebrows on the part of the police and prosecutors than would a tricked-out tacticool semi-auto. But I tend to tilt toward a handgun and shotgun combo for HD.

One thing I like about going 'old school' is that I don't like defensive weapon systems that are dependent on battery powered devices. Most red-dots, lasers, flashlights, illuminated scopes, etc., fall into that category. Not to say that I don't keep a couple of small Surefire flashlights near at hand, and also own a couple of other gizmos, but I swear that Murphy's Law seems to dictate that those gadgets all work just dandy right up until the moment that I really need them...... Go figure. I believe that reliance on battery power on a defensive gun makes the infamous internal-lock of S&W fame seem like an enhancement by comparison.

Thanks for the discussion, guys, great stuff to contemplate.

 

[Ron H.]

Anyone else see the utility of these guns based on century-old designs?

John

Sir, FWIW, I don't see a lot of defensive utility in pistol-caliber lever-actions. They lack the compactness and one-handed operation of pistols, the power of shotguns, and the range of actual rifles.

If you can't have a pistol (because of silly laws or whatever) and can't physically manage a shotgun or actual rifle, then there's some value in a pistol-caliber lever-action. Otherwise, not so much.

They do make good plinkers and short-range hunting guns, though.

JMHO.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[RonJ]

I also don't understand the fixation with RANGE on a home defense weapon. In the house I'd probably grab a shotgun and maybe a handgun if I have time.
I don't for one minute doubt the potential of a .357 at rifle velocities. Everyone is quick to point out that inside 100 yards the .357 has as much killing power as a 30/30, but it won't serve in a defense role?
Handling? I'll have to concede, goes to the M4's etc.

 

[sigp220.45]

I have the choice of carrying an M4 or a 10mm MP5 at work, and I've always chosen the MP-5. I know the MP5 isn't a lever gun by any means, but it is a pistol caliber carbine.

I agree with Oldman45 and Ronj - I just don't see the need for a rifle cartridge. I've shot the MP5 enough to know it will make head shots all day at 50 yards, and will easily hit a man sized target at 100. Any scenario with me banging away at somebody farther than that is so remote as to be not worth considering. The handiness and reliability of that little German tommygun more than make up for any other shortcomings.

 

[ColbyBruce]

My brother has a Winchester #1300 turkey gun with a 21" VR barrel and a 4x scope. With a Imp. Cyl. choke tube and 2.75" Rottweil-Brenneke slugs it will shoot a fist size group at 100 yards. A little more versatile than a lever gun and lots faster to shoot and load.

This discussion is interesting, but I am not sure the lever gun is the best thing to grab for. I have seen a good many deer hunters work a lever action and never pull the trigger, emptying the cartridges onto the ground. Excitement can create errors.

 

[Engineer1911]

My lever is on the top -- a 1974 Auto Ordnance Thompson with a 50 round AO West Hurley, New York drum. That gets the carbine part done. A S&W 1911 with multiple match quality mags gets the handgun part done. The 45 ACP is almost a 100 year design so I'm 3 for 3.

Now the real question is: How long can I shoot before I have to reload mags. Aimed fire? A long time before we switch to the EBRs.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I think practicing handling and dry firing any firearm is a wise practice, especially one you might use in self defense. I read an account of a Marine in the Battle for the Pusan Perimeter, he mentioned having problems with his M-1 Carbine, realized he forgot to disengage the safety.
I personally like my firearms stock, as long as the action is smooth I feel secure. I also the FBI rule of "low light-close range" still holds true.

 

[RABULL]

The Lever Actions are my favorites and I have Winchester 94's in .30-30, .357 mag, .44 magnum and .45 Colt, a Winchester 1873 in .38-40, a Winchester 1886 in .45-70 and a Winchester 1892 in .32-20. I have the Browning B-92 in .44 magnum and the Browning 1886 in .45-70. I also have a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70. I think I have the pistol calibers and the big bore .45-70 covered fairly well.

 

[Catshooter]

I disagree with the "hunting level mag and mag parts", this info is based on what? And I esp disagree when it's being compared to an AR mag. An AR mag? Is there any worse mag ever seen?

Also, I suspect that those who say you can't prone out with a lever haven't tried it. I can get just as low with my levers as I can with an AR with a 20 round mag. The thirty's make you taller than a lever.

The only mistake the OP makes it the caliber, it needs to be .45 Colt! No small bores!

For stopping power I'd for sure take the .45 Colt over the .223.

Let the flames begin.


Cat