Any chance? 686 in 10mm?
- Thread starter Brasso4
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Maybe but it wouldn't be called a 686 then?
jtcarm
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Same round, different frame.
616?
The 3rd gen autos sure sucked up a lot of numbers.
3rdgeargrndrr
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Please report back on how it shoots 10 and 40. Interested
F75gunslinger
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I would say probably not. 10mm has more pressure than .357, and I doubt that S&W would chamber a larger round in the same cylinder. Perhaps make it a 5 shot like the 69 or the X frames. But I don't think the 10mm cartridge has enough of a following to create a new gun for it when they discontinued the 610 for lack of sales.
The more 10 MM GP-100s Ruger sells the more likely a 10 MM L frame becomes. Since S&W already made the Model 646 six shot L frame .40 S&W it is hard to argue that a 10 MM six shot L frame can not be done. 10 MM is only 500 psi higher pressure than .40 S&W. The 646 had a titanium cylinder and titanium cylinders were rumored here to be stronger than stainless steel cylinders but S&W is still making 8 shot 9 MM and other titanium cylinders.
The problem is 10 MM automatics only sold well enough for S&W to make them for 3 years and the Model 610 10 MM N frame might hold the record for the model of revolver that S&W discontinued the most times. Maybe if a grizzly old Clint Eastwood could point his Model 610&1/2 at a scruffy looking second rate actor and say "seeings as how this is the most powerful 10 MM on the planet and would blow your head clear off ..." a new 10 MM S&W cartridge revolver that could also fire 10 MM Magnum, 10 MM and .40 S&W in moon clips might spark a twinkle in a S&W marketing Vice President's eye.
The problem is 10 MM automatics only sold well enough for S&W to make them for 3 years and the Model 610 10 MM N frame might hold the record for the model of revolver that S&W discontinued the most times. Maybe if a grizzly old Clint Eastwood could point his Model 610&1/2 at a scruffy looking second rate actor and say "seeings as how this is the most powerful 10 MM on the planet and would blow your head clear off ..." a new 10 MM S&W cartridge revolver that could also fire 10 MM Magnum, 10 MM and .40 S&W in moon clips might spark a twinkle in a S&W marketing Vice President's eye.
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When ever you take a gun and fit it to a cartridge that was not inherently meant for it, problems have a better chance of rearing themselves. While the 10mm is a formidable cartridge, it has become expensive, harder to find and won't really do any better than a proper Revolver cartridge designed for Revolvers. For example, a .44 Magnum,.41 Magnum or .357 Magnum. With proper "Revolver Cartridges", you won't need to concern yourself with Moon Clips, or more complicated Ejection and finding a less popular selection of 10mm rounds if one does not reload. Even if reloading, I would think components are more expensive, harder to buy and available in less choices. Just my thoughts and of course YMMV.
Apparently my millage does vary. Revolvers that can not be reloaded with full moon clips are not competitive at the top level in most local matches. When moon clips are shoe horned into revolvers that are chambered for "proper" revolver cartridges the resulting clips are too thin and consequently too easily bent. Bent moon clips act as springs that cushion the firing pin blow. The resulting missfires are common malfunctions in local matches. The thicker .45 ACP and 10MM/.40S&W moon clips for S&W revolvers rarely get bent.
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Maybe that's because the 10mm has become far more popular than in the past??
Not knocking .41 Magnum, but the ammo is not any easier to find on store shelves than 10mm. There are only a few .41 Mag. guns in production, meanwhile 10mm firearms are being made by many manufacturers.
Do both a ".41 Magnum", and a "10mm" search on GB and see how many items come up.
And the question that many ask is "why buy a .41 Magnum when you already have a 10mm?"
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I asked the LGS to find a 10mm GP100 but his distributors are "out of stock" for the TALO edition. So Smith if you are listening - hurry up and make an L-frame 10 mm.
For a long time the only major manufacturer carrying the 10 mm banner was Glock. Now, many more choices, even if most of them are 1911s.
For a long time the only major manufacturer carrying the 10 mm banner was Glock. Now, many more choices, even if most of them are 1911s.
The difficulty with smith coming out with an L frame 10mm 6 shot is due to the difference in location of cylinder bolt notches vs the gp100. A six shot smith L frame has the notch centered in the chamber, thus making that area thinner/weaker. The ruger has always been slightly offset in the 6 shot gp100.
It could also be the reason the gp100 has only come out in 44 special, whereas the smith L frame is 44 magnum. The smith version bolt stop is more between the cylinder chambers in the 5 shot, whereas the gp100, while being slightly offset, is still over the chamber slightly. Thus the smith cylinder can handle more pressure in a 5 shot, and the ruger can handle more pressure in a 6 shot.
twodog max
Member
IMO the niche for the 40/41 calibers is not that huge in shooting circles. Nothing wrong with either one but they just have not captured huge numbers of shooters attention. At least for extended times. While moon clips are great for competition shooting just how much market is there for such a revolver. I am guessing not real big. Anything can happen and maybe an L frame 10mm may appear but one should not hold their breath waiting.
Groo01
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Groo here
Having shot 10mm in many guns there are some things to concider.
10mm in middle to high end loads are about where most load 41 ,44
down to or 45 colt up to, and you can buy them.
10mm is more available and is cheaper than 41 or 44 or 45LC.
S&B factory 180 fmj can be found by the case for about $16 [50].
It starts with a "4".
Moon clips allow faster reloads, and better extraction.[though I hate to admit]
And the smaller case and flush rim allows a smaller cylinder and
therefore a smaller lighter gun...
Having shot 10mm in many guns there are some things to concider.
10mm in middle to high end loads are about where most load 41 ,44
down to or 45 colt up to, and you can buy them.
10mm is more available and is cheaper than 41 or 44 or 45LC.
S&B factory 180 fmj can be found by the case for about $16 [50].
It starts with a "4".
Moon clips allow faster reloads, and better extraction.[though I hate to admit]
And the smaller case and flush rim allows a smaller cylinder and
therefore a smaller lighter gun...
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My primary interest in the 10mm ruger is that it also fires .40s&w. I believe that would make a much better ccw round than the .357mag. The .357 is 3 times louder than a .40. 3 times! If I ever have to use it indoors or in a car myself and my family will only suffer ringing ears instead of bleeding ears. And, there are many great performing .40 rounds to choose from.
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The 40 S&W & the .357 Magnum have the same standardized SAAMI max pressure: 35K psi
The 10mm has a 37.5K psi standardized SAAMI max pressure.
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All S&W 686(+) revolvers have the stop notch in-between the chambers, at the thickest point, & have no affect on the cylinder's strength/weakness.
Even if/when the stop notch is over the 686's chamber the metal is essentially the same thickness, at the stop notch, as the thickness of a 629 44 Magnum (36K psi), at the stop notch, as I've measured on my revolvers:
~.078" : outside cylinder wall thickness
(-)
~.038" : stop notch depth
(=)
~ .040" : metal thickness at/under the stop notch
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The 686(+) is ~.051" thick in-between the chambers.
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Uses the same bullets as the 40S&W; no price difference
Large primer -vs- small primer; no price difference here.
Brass: (as listed on Starline's website)
.357 = $0.16/ea
.40 = $0.18/ea
10mm = $0.19/ea
- no big difference -
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Agreed. The COAL" of the 10mm is still shorter than a .357 so the extra length over the .40 is of no consequence.
I'd doubt the 10mm's extra 2.5K psi would be of consequence either.
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S&W made a 9mm revolver years ago that didn't require moon clip, similar to the way the Charter Arms .40 Pitbull holds it's rounds. If S&W did come out with a L-frame 10mm revolver I'd vote for that feature.
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