Any drawing Tips ?

allthumbs

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I just got back from the 1st day of a 2 day CCW class and I have plenty of range time and can shoot pretty decent but when he was teaching the holster and drawing skills I was very uncomfortable, I think the main reason was that we were using plastic guns and just sticking them down our pants at 3 o'clock and lets just say I'm a big boy without much extra room in my levi's LOL. So will practicing with a holster and my carry gun of choice be any better ? And if you have any tips I'm all ears, I'd rather learn from experienced people who carry and learn right then start out with any bad habits.

TIA, John
 
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Get as high a hand hold as you can get on the grip of the gun (get the webbing of your Thumb/Index Finger as high up into the 'arm pit' of the back strap as possible) and halfway between the thumb and index finger, so you can draw a line down your radius bone onto the gun.
If you use a 'regular' Hybrid Kydex/Leather holster and can't get your thumb into the right position, do a 'Combat Cut' on the leather.

After that, google the 5 point holster draw.
Here's one link and one video... There may be better:
Gray Ops FireArms Specialty Training - Pistol Fundamentals

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zuYzd-ugXQ[/ame]
 
Don't work on speed. Speed will come eventually. Work on making it a smooth draw where it's all one motion. You won't get there after 10 practices. It takes time. And take your time practicing. Once you get the smooth draw down you'll see that your speed has increased without you even thinking about it.
 
The video above, while not great, does indeed cover the 5 step presentation:

  1. Support hand and shooting hand move as one. Support hand goes to the mid-section while the shooting hand drives down on the pistol, obtaining a full firing grip.
  2. The gun is pulled straight up out of the holster. I usually teach to move it enough to just clear the holster, but higher is not necessarily a bad thing.
  3. Pivot the gun by dropping the elbow. At this point the gun should be pointed at the target and a shot can be taken. Notice that the gun should still be along side your body and canted out slightly. This cant prevents your shirt from getting tangled up should you need to fire.
  4. Start moving the gun straight toward the target. As the gun passes the front of your body, the hands come together. Safety off at this point.
  5. As the press toward the target reaches full length, sight alignment and sight picture are obtained. The trigger finger goes on the trigger with the slack out.

Where I differ from the video is in reholstering. Just like the video, you just do the steps backward. However, start from the low ready. Also, pause at step 3 before putting it back in the holster. I'll spare you the details as to why I do it this way, but will explain if you really want to hear it.
 
Once you figure out the draw technique that works best for you, practice it--a lot. I'd suggest a couple hours a week, in 10-15 minute sessions, separated by at least a couple hours between sessions. Of course, with a dry gun--no ammo or loaded mags in the room, a safe backstop for your aiming point, all the rules that go with dry fire practice; dry fire can be integrated, too, but there's nothing wrong with focusing strictly on the draw/re-holster sequence.
Go slow, work on smooth. Speed will come when it's needed.
Then, to help reinforce the muscle memory, every time you unholster the gun--to put it away for the night, for instance--do it as a 'tactical' (I hate that word) draw (with safety in mind, of course) before you put the gun in the drawer, safe, whatever. When you holster up to start the day, holster it the same way you'd do it after a live fire exercise. Same way every time, and again, always safely.

Sorry for the long post. Drawing/re-holstering is one of the major fundamentals for every carrier. Good on ya for asking for advice. Acebow
 
I don't have much to add to the above advice, which is good advice.

The goal is to be able to draw in a smooth, continuous motion, but in the beginning it's important to work out each step consciously and then start putting it all together. Don't rush it. It will come with practice.

It's really important to get a good, solid grip on the gun before you draw it from the holster.

Consistency is key.

Above all else, be safe.
 
I agree, yankin' a blue gun out of your trousers ain't the same thing.
You know, I gotta agree with this.

Is the instructor afraid to use your real gun and real holster?

In my class I don't allow live ammo in the classroom; ever. This way we can manipulate our guns as much as we want. We still follow the safety rules and muzzling another student or the instructor is not allowed, but at least the students get training with their real gun.
 
You know, I gotta agree with this.

Is the instructor afraid to use your real gun and real holster?

In my class I don't allow live ammo in the classroom; ever. This way we can manipulate our guns as much as we want. We still follow the safety rules and muzzling another student or the instructor is not allowed, but at least the students get training with their real gun.

That's a good way to do it. It's easy to develop bad habits and even more difficult to correct them later.

Quality training and lot's of practice help develop muscle memory that we can rely upon under stress.
 
No offense, but find a better instructor. .

This ^^^

No disrespect intended, but if this is only a 2-day class on CCW and the guy is spending time trying to teach you fast-drawing techniques, he is wasting your time and money. It's like trying to teach you martial arts in one weekend. For what I assume to be an introductory class, there are more important topics, such as types of guns, ammo, how to carry, pros and cons of various holsters and such. Shoving a training gun down your waistband and "practicing" to jerk it out accomplishes exactly nothing. As others have already pointed out, just learning the fundamentals is a lengthy process of first learning and then practice. Then it needs to be adapted to your situation. Standardized draw and re-holster drills are only going to work for you if you can carry your CCW gun in a standardized holster, the way cops do on the job; something as basic as whether you're wearing a sweater or a suit coat can change the muscle dynamics of the draw. Basic drills are only a start if due to job, clothing or other constraints you can only carry in a shoulder or ankle holster or a fanny pack, so you have to adapt and train for that.
Then, if you study actual civilian self defense cases, you'll find that not that many actually involve a "fast draw to shoot", so practicing that shouldn't be the sole focus; if you really want to be prepared, you need to practice trying to get your gun into action while someone has your arms pinned from behind or has you in a chokehold, or you are using one of your hands to keep a knife away from you. That's where plastic guns come in handy; you don't want to scuffle around with real guns playing at that. We used to have a lot of fun practicing that when I was younger.

In a nutshell, there are no shortcuts.
 
Seems tome your class time would be better spent discussing what kind of holster to use and where to put that holster than teaching how to draw from a Mexican carry. Is a fast draw part of the required demonstrable abilities (holy moly where did that phrase come from) necessary to qualify for a concealed carry permit/license in your state? Will you be able to use your chosen carry gun to show this ability or will you have to use a "blue practice gun"?
 
Draw ideas

Very important to keep the trigger finger OUTSIDE the trigger guard till on the target.

The other half of a draw is how to safely reholster after deploying the firearm. Was in a class when someone got careless and torched off a round while holstering. Very close to shooting his own right foot. He kept his finger in the trigger guard while reholstering. His trigger finger had no where else to go except against the trigger as it was caught by the holster as he pressed his handgun down. He lost his range privileges and was fortunate that was all.

Be sure the threat making you decide to draw is really over. Check your all around you.
(This is best done with both hands controlling the handgun while pointing it down without sweeping your feet.)
Bending your knees and slightly lowering your self will allow you to really get a look behind without moving your feet.

A well informed defensive handgun instructor will get you on the right direction for things and reduce the chance that you will form bad habits - which cost most people twice as long to unlearn and then rebuild the proper technique.

Make sure you buy a quality holster that will not collapse after you draw and not allow you to safely reholster.

Most people buy too many handguns when the better approach is to buy a good quality handgun and use the rest for training and ammo.

Most new shooters are better served with a 5/6 shot revolver S&W or Ruger to keep the status of the handgun simple. Revolvers are easier to check loaded or not.

I have several handguns but I value most the experience of having excellent instructors to help avoid many, many common mistakes.

Might also want to look to see if there is an IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association). Just watching good shooters is a real benefit. Well organized competition is both humbling and rewarding to participate in.

Enjoy the journey of becoming a skilled and responsible defensive shooter.
 
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Was in a class when someone got careless and torched off a round while holstering.
This is why no live ammo should ever be allowed in the classroom. Then, there should be a definite distinction between the classroom and the range.

I don't allow loaded guns in the holster until they have been taught how to properly present and reholster. This training must either be done by me or a school I know. I don't care if "uncle Bob" is a three time recipient of the international star. If I don't know your ability with using a holster, you won't use one in my class.

Now, if I train you and you still discharge the gun while doing holster operations, that's my fault.
 
The only thing I can add is to go and get your self a quality gun belt that is specifically designed to be a gun belt and get your self a good quality holster.

I advocate always carrying the gun in the same location in the same rig when possible. Not everyone agrees with that but it works for me.

I also advocate practicing your draw until it's habit, if your range allows it you may want to always practice your draw as part of your shot SLOWLY.

I had a guy that taught me to lay block 30 years ago and every day he said the same thing "You work on doing it right, speed will come." He was right
 
It's no longer the Wild West. IMHO the best thing you can do is draw your gun unseen and keep it behind your back. If you know someone already has a gun they probably have it in your face.
 
For the obliglitory reinforcements :

1. Get a proper grip on the gun , while it's still in the holster , and before the draw begins.

2. Practice smoothness , starting out in slow motion, and gradually increase the speed , always maintaining the smoothness.

And now on to other comments :

There is no such thing as a standardized draw sequence , with a set amount of number to count off. Or even having numbers to count off.


The biggest single variable is the rake of the holster ( or lack thereof ). A signature patented technique designed around a vertical holster , won't be smooth ( if it works at all ) with an FBI or steeper butt foreward rake. And visa versa. Additional factors are ride height of holster , your arm length , your torso length , your upper body and shoulder flexibility.

The "modern" numbered techniques frequently have exagerated movements , arbitrary right angle gun movements , and the gun coming to a stop at several points.

The Old School masters ( Jordan, McGivren , Applegate, young Askins , Keith , et al )emphasised ( once clear of leather ) to bring bring the gun directly to firing position , with no wasted motion , as smoothly as possable.


Reholstering - Yup smooth , one handed , eyes off reholstering is *desireable* , and an impresive demonstration of skill at arms. And yeah , one upon a time , I methodically practiced it. And when initially learning the draw , ot make life very much easier to use a holster conducive to easy reholstering.

BUT in the real world of actual carrying , particularily for Joe Citizen vs uniformed LE , the only mandatory part is SAFE . Fast, one handed , and eyes closed are *desireable* to an extent , but are ultimately negeoatable.

When you NEED a gun out , you need it Right Now. Once a situation is resolved and no longer dangerous , you've got all day to reholster safely. ( I lile to make the comparison to handcuffing. If the other person isn't cuffed and preferably face down in 5sec , you're in deep do-do. There is no wrong method in the real world, if the cuff-ee is cuffed within 5sec , it is de facto Right. But you've got all day to remove the cuffs at your lesisure.)

Likewise for an actual carry holster ( vs dedicated training holster ) if it is safe , secure , suitably conceale , and lends itself to a smooth draw , it's a potential option. Fast , one handed , and eyes closed are desireable etxras , but not mandatory.
 
This is long.

If you are interested in practicing “Fast Draw” with an autoloader, please study the following video:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE[/ame]

If you are interested in practicing “Fast Draw” with a double action revolver, please continue reading.

I bought Bill Jordan’s book “No Second Place Winner” about 5 years ago. I think the chapters on open carry, double action revolver, fast draw are invaluable and the information in those chapters is not to be found anywhere else that I am aware of.

Using Jordan’s book as an ever present guide, I have been working on perfecting my double action revolver fast draw for about 4 years. The first 3 years of that time were spend trying (and ultimately rejecting) various holsters, belts, grips, holster positions, holster cants and draw strokes. We are all slightly different physically from each other, so what works good for me may need to be modified somewhat for you. Here is what I have found that works for me:

1. Economy of the revolver’s movement is critical. A draw stroke that moves the revolver twice as far (when compared to an alternate draw stroke) will make your total draw time approximately twice as long (when compared to the time of the alternate draw stroke).
2. Jordan is right, once you begin your draw movement, don’t stop the movement or change the general direction of the movement because doing so will increase your total draw time. Don’t stop your draw stroke to grip the revolver; instead, pick it up on the way by during your draw stroke.
3. Jordan is right, don’t stop at the end of your draw stroke and then pull the trigger because doing so will increase your total draw time. Instead, you should be pulling the trigger AS you are performing your draw stroke and the hammer should fall just as you come to the end of your draw stroke when the revolver has come on target.
4. Jordan is right, only hits count; fast noises don’t. If you find you are missing your target during practice, SLOW DOWN your draw to the point where you are hitting consistently. Once you are hitting consistently, then you can begin to SLOWLY increase the speed of your draw. Remember, it takes thousands of rounds of practice to perfect your draw stroke. The following saying is true: slow equals smooth; smooth equals fast; fast equals accurate.
5. I only use 4” barreled S&W stainless double action revolvers (a 66, a 627 Pro and a 617) . I am convinced I am far less likely to blow my foot off during live ammo practice using a double action revolver, than using an autoloader or a single action revolver (with the single action “cock in the holster while drawing and firing” technique). I also only use factory power springs that give me around an 11.5 to 12.0 lb double action trigger pull.
6. I use the Hogue Round Butt to Square Butt conversion grips (Hogue #: 19012); the ones without finger grooves. Jordan was right, a smooth grip without any finger grooves allows grip adjustment during the draw if you happen to get a less than perfect grip to begin with. I also like a square butt grip because the way it fits my hand forces the muzzle to point higher when the revolver is fired. Every wooden grip I have tried wears a hole in my skin in the web of my hand at the base of my thumb. The Hogues don’t.
7. I use a modified Blade Tech OWB holster ($65.00). I have modified it by cutting out the part that covers the trigger guard. As shown by the Border Patrol holster Jordan designed, my testing has proven to me that an open trigger guard is essential to developing a consistent and fast DA revolver draw. I use a Blade Tech 1.50” SR Loop for belt attachment ($12.95). I also use a modified Blade Tech D/OS drop loop ($12.95). I modify it by cutting out the supports at the bend, heating it with a heat gun and beating it flat. I then use it to attach the holster to the belt loop. The holster is mounted at a 45 degree angle to the drop loop.
8. My belt is a DeSantis E25 1.50” Econobelt Belt. Stiff, doesn’t sag and costs ~ $20.
9. I am right handed. Reverse the following if you are a lefty.
10. My holster placement is different than Jordan’s. I place my holster in front of my right hip at about 2 o’clock. When belting up, I thread my belt through my pants belt loops, going one by one on the left, then around my back and then through those belt loops on my right side. Before going through the last belt loop on my right front, I thread the belt through the back belt slot of the holster loop, then through the pants belt loop, then through the front belt slot of the holster loop and buckle up. Grip butt will be toward my right hip, the muzzle will be toward my mid line.
11. If I will be standing/walking, I grab the holstered revolver and pull the holster as far to my right as it will go; it will be stopped by the pants belt loop that is trapped between the belt slots in the holster loop. In this position, the grip doesn’t protrude outside of my body’s outline and this allows me to walk naturally, swinging my arms without interference from the holster or the revolver’s grip
12. If I am going to be seated or driving, I grab the holstered revolver and pull the holster as far to my left as it will go. Again, it will be stopped by the pants belt loop that is trapped between the belt slots in the holster loop. I can sit comfortably, make a fast draw and even buckle my seat belt, if driving, by passing the lap belt portion of the seat belt under the holster.
13. My draw stroke is also somewhat different than Mr. Jordan’s. I will explain it as best I can. Stand up straight. Don’t crouch or jump around during the draw. My hand is NOT on the revolver grip. With my right arm hanging straight down, I shoot my right elbow out to the right and toward the back. This lifts my arm and hand. Keeping my wrist locked, as my hand sweeps by the revolver, I grip it, being sure to place my finger into the trigger guard. Never stopping and continuing the motion of my elbow to the rear, I slam my right forearm into my side (just above the beltline) locking it in place, all the while pulling the trigger. Because my wrist is locked, as my forearm is finishing locking into place, the muzzle of my revolver crosses the target, the hammer falls and a hit is made.
14. For live fire practice, my target is a 12” round steel challenge plate mounted 4 feet high and placed anywhere from 4 feet to 10 feet in front of me. For dry fire practice, my target is any convenient inanimate object in my workroom.

Now for my times. This is being written in 2015, I turn 66 years old later this year and I am SLOW. When timing my live fire draws I use a Pact timer with a random count down that is worn on my belt on my left side. I activate the timer with my left hand. When I hear the beep, I draw with my right hand, fire (and hit). That is my time: reaction time + draw + fire (and hit). Again, my hand is NOT on the revolver grip when starting; my arm is hanging straight down. When I am in practice, my average time per shot for a cylinder full of shots is 0.52 seconds each. My fastest time (so far) is 0.44 seconds (hitting). I can tell you that when my times are in the 4’s, it happens faster than I can think, because the whole process is a surprise to me.

I would think someone who is in their late teens, or twenties, or even early thirties, would, with practice, have averages in the 3’s or even high 2’s.

Remember, all this comes with a "Big Boy" warranty.

A "Big Boy" warranty = "If you try this and anything goes wrong, well you're a big boy now and ..."
 
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Is everyone living in La La Land here? Unless you're a Cop you're never going to get any warning someone is pulling a gun on you. Practice being Quick Draw McGraw if you like it don't mean Jack. Just stay away from dangerous places and situations :)
 
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