Any issues with +P ammo in a 469?

[Borderboss]

Does anyone know of any issues with shooting +P ammo in a 469? I think there was a decent amount of +P 9mm back when they were being built. Anyway, I'm just planning on shooting 50-60 rounds of +P (Federal HST 124 Tactical) through mine to make sure it feeds ok with all four magazines, and after that it'll only get standard pressure stuff at the range.

Thanks much for your insights!

 

[Rock185]

Borderboss, Were it mine, I would have no concern. I've not had a 469, but have used +P in a wide variety of S&W and other 9mm pistols. This would include a compact S&W 3913. Other than being single stack, I'd guess the 3913 is similar enough to your 469 (alloy frame, short slide, 3 1/2" barrel,etc.) that any issues with using +P would show up in my gun too. I have experienced no issues in using +P in any of my previous or current S&W pistols.

 

[Racer X]

for limited function testing, and later defense carry, shouldn't be an issue. I have a 439 BTW. Full sized, single stack, alloy frame.

Just an FYI, Winchester White Box NATO rounds are almost +P pressure, so not a steady diet of these as range fodder.

 

[stansdds]

+P ammo will accelerate wear and you should replace the recoil spring more often with +P ammo. I tried +P 124 and 147 grain ammo in my Model 6946. I did not like it and settled on standard pressure 147 grain ammo. Modern hollow point designs from Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester do not require +P velocity for reliable expansion. With modern bullets, +P often gets the same expanded diameter, but expansion occurs much faster and decreases penetration.

 

[Borderboss]

Thanks much for the info guys. I'm hitting the range tonight and we'll see how she shoots.

 

[st regis]

We were issued the 469 as our duty guns in 1989. (Georgia Bureau of Investigation). I never had any issues at all. Now, that was the times when 115 gr Silvertips were issued, too. Some of this modern ammo ( I like HST stuff) will be just fine. Great Classic Smith auto you have there!

 

[Borderboss]

Overall, she shot really well. There didn't seem to be any problem with the HST ammo. The gun is heavy enough that the felt recoil wasn't much different between the regular FMJ stuff and the HST +P.

I only had two stoppages in 200 rounds. With the Blazer brass case 115 FMJ, I had a stovepipe. With some Hornady Critical Defense 124gr, I had a failure to eject, where the slide came forward before the case had ejected. I'm thinking (hoping) that this was ammo related, as all the other rounds were great and the ejection of brass was fine.

 

[imarangemaster]

I fed my 469 124+P Gold Dots, and it never hurt it, but that is just a couple hundred rounds a year at most. Casual plinking I use whatever is cheapest!

 

[stansdds]

Overall, she shot really well. There didn't seem to be any problem with the HST ammo. The gun is heavy enough that the felt recoil wasn't much different between the regular FMJ stuff and the HST +P.

I only had two stoppages in 200 rounds. With the Blazer brass case 115 FMJ, I had a stovepipe. With some Hornady Critical Defense 124gr, I had a failure to eject, where the slide came forward before the case had ejected. I'm thinking (hoping) that this was ammo related, as all the other rounds were great and the ejection of brass was fine.

Take a good look at the ejector, make sure it is not damaged, then take a good look at the extractor, make sure the hook has no damage. Clean out the extractor channel with aerosol cleaner. If everything is clean and free of damage, then it is possible that the extractor spring is weak.

 

[BigBoy99]

I just don't see the advantage of shooting +P ammunition. You are make the gun withstand higher pressures which reduce the margin of safety built into the gun. According to SAAMI, the design pressure for 9mm is 35,000 psi while the design pressure for 9mm+P is 38,500 psi, a 10% increase. Why anyone knowingly increases the internal pressure is strange to me. Your just moving closer to the failure point.

If you want to increase the velocity and energy of the projectile, why not buy a gun which which has those already with standard ammunition, not "hopped up" ammo. In regular 9mm ammo, a bullet weight of 115 gr. with a velocity of 1250 fps. produces an energy of 395. While the same bullet weight in 9mm+P has a velocity of 1300 fps and an energy of 431.

In regular 9mm, a bullet weight of 124 gr. with a velocity of 1125 fps. produces an energy of 351. While the same bullet weight in 9mm+P has a velocity of 1300 fps and an energy of 465.

If the caliber was changed to 38 Super (which I call 9mm Magnum) the performance even exceeds 9mm+P and doesn't over pressure the gun - pressure for 38 Super is 36,500 psi.

In regular 38 Super ammo, a bullet weight of 115 gr. with a velocity of 1450 fps. produces an energy of 537. With a bullet weight of 124 gr. and a velocity of 1350 fps. produces an energy of 502.

Just by changing the caliber, you are obtaining performance with standard ammunition which exceeds the "hopped up" ammo which places undo stress on the handgun.

 

[Borderboss]

I just don't see the advantage of shooting +P ammunition. You are make the gun withstand higher pressures which reduce the margin of safety built into the gun. According to SAAMI, the design pressure for 9mm is 35,000 psi while the design pressure for 9mm+P is 38,500 psi, a 10% increase. Why anyone knowingly increases the internal pressure is strange to me. Your just moving closer to the failure point.

If you want to increase the velocity and energy of the projectile, why not buy a gun which which has those already with standard ammunition, not "hopped up" ammo. In regular 9mm ammo, a bullet weight of 115 gr. with a velocity of 1250 fps. produces an energy of 395. While the same bullet weight in 9mm+P has a velocity of 1300 fps and an energy of 431.

In regular 9mm, a bullet weight of 124 gr. with a velocity of 1125 fps. produces an energy of 351. While the same bullet weight in 9mm+P has a velocity of 1300 fps and an energy of 465.

If the caliber was changed to 38 Super (which I call 9mm Magnum) the performance even exceeds 9mm+P and doesn't over pressure the gun - pressure for 38 Super is 36,500 psi.

In regular 38 Super ammo, a bullet weight of 115 gr. with a velocity of 1450 fps. produces an energy of 537. With a bullet weight of 124 gr. and a velocity of 1350 fps. produces an energy of 502.

Just by changing the caliber, you are obtaining performance with standard ammunition which exceeds the "hopped up" ammo which places undo stress on the handgun.

However, we know that bullet performance in a self defense setting is more than just weight and velocity. It's as much about bullet construction than the other two variables. All one needs to do is consult the Lucky Gunner performance tables to see that.

In my case, I've settled in on the Federal HST Tactical +P 124 gr. load. I may actually change that at some point, because the Lucky Gunner tests show the non +P load performing about identically. However, I've seen tests from others that don't match that result.

This gun will shoot 5-10 normal pressure rounds for every +P round it fires.

 

[ispcapt]

To get back to the OP's question.
The 469 was our issued duty gun for several years for plain clothes. We had several hundred 469 issued and a bunch more 459 for uniform. We ran a bunch of Federal 115 gr BPLE +P+ which was our issued duty load. A lot. Much more than the average gunner is going to shoot. We ran only the BPLE for practice shoots, training shoots, and qualification shoots. Never was a problem in the 469.
No doubt the +P+ increased wear but not at all likely you're going to shoot that much +P or +P+.

 

[Borderboss]

To get back to the OP's question.
The 469 was our issued duty gun for several years for plain clothes. We had several hundred 469 issued and a bunch more 459 for uniform. We ran a bunch of Federal 115 gr BPLE +P+ which was our issued duty load. A lot. Much more than the average gunner is going to shoot. We ran only the BPLE for practice shoots, training shoots, and qualification shoots. Never was a problem in the 469.
No doubt the +P+ increased wear but not at all likely you're going to shoot that much +P or +P+.

That's great to know. Thanks much!