Any war time P35 HP knowledge out there?

[swagmeister]

Good looking old HP and quite a collectible (pricey these days too!!) I have a 1972 Belgium made HP and always wanted a Nazi marked one but never got one. I have a buddy with two of them, one with what he says is an original shoulder stock and tangent rear site and $2500 will not touch either of them if he were to sell, which he probably never will!!! At age 71 and on a fixed retirement income it's only a dream for me now. But I do love to see them. Thanks for showing.

 

[Rudi]

If you can find one with a CH prefix to the number jump on it. They were made for China and are quite rare now.

 

[Goony]

If you can find one with a CH prefix to the number jump on it. They were made for China and are quite rare now.

Here's an excellent article on this Hi-Power variant: Obscure Object of Desire: Chinese Contract Inglis Hi-Power 9mm Pistol - The Truth About Guns

 

[Dvus]

A fine article. As I mentioned in an earlier post, a buddy of mine has one of these Inglis Hi Powers with the original wooden stock. It does have the "CH" serial number. It's a beautiful piece of history.

 

[Rudi]

A fine article. As I mentioned in an earlier post, a buddy of mine has one of these Inglis Hi Powers with the original wooden stock. It does have the "CH" serial number. It's a beautiful piece of history.

I'd promote that one to "Safe Dweller". A rare and very collectable example.

 

[Cossack]

I realize I'm late to this party, but I thought it was worth mentioning that the advice to keep this as a "Safe Dweller" might be good - Anthony Vanderlinden, in his book "FN Browning Pistols," recommends not firing WaA140 (12/1941-8/1944) Pistols. Produced entirely under the occupation, quality control was down and sabotage (often in the form of poor heat treatment of parts) was up. WaA140 Pistols often break under repeated firing.

I think you're pretty close on the date. Vanderlinden dates "b" suffix pistols as produced between 1/44 and 8/44. He adds "although pistol production under the occupation officially ceased in August 1944, records indicate that little production took place after May 1944." So there's a good chance it was earlier than June, but it is late. The very last occupation High Powers were in the 61800 "b" range (They started at "1b").

Are your grips bakelite or plastic? The original grips would have most likely been bakelite, although wood was possible but unlikely, especially considering the relatively high serial number.

 

[Cossack]

I looked into this some more. A thread on another board indicates that the mag safety is fitted to some b series Nazi pistols. That muddies the waters somewhat.

For what it's worth Vanderlinden states that in fixed sight WaA140 pistols, the mag safety was present in the early ones with no suffix. In 1943, the "a" suffix pistols started to streamline production, and that when (and why) the mag safety was deleted.

I would suspect the only way a mag safety would be present on a "b" suffix pistol would be if a "b" slide was fitted to an older production frame that had the mag safety - perhaps retroactively, perhaps from some old stock frames at the factory, although I can't imagine any were laying around that late in the war. But that's all speculation on my part.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I read an interesting story regarding the Belgian arms company FN years ago. Reported that a British commando unit was sent into Belgium ahead of the Nazi advance for the specific purpose of grabbing the key engineers and designers, who were then relocated to Canada where the Inglis company geared up to produce the FN designs in support of Commonwealth forces. P-35 pattern pistols remained in production under Nazi occupation, but some reports indicate a bit of sabotage by the workers. Meanwhile, P-35 pattern pistols were produced and supplied to Allied forces during the WW2 years while also in use by German forces.

The P-35 remained a primary sidearm for many of the British Commonwealth nations for decades after WW2. Copies were also manufactured, both under license and otherwise, in Soviet Bloc countries as well as South Africa, Israel, Argentina, and others.

Favored by some US Army Special Forces units during Vietnam. Used by FBI Hostage Rescue Team during its early days.

Lots of history. Probably lots of untold stories.

 

[oink]

I have one my FIL brought back as a war trophy along with a fancy dagger. I have his bring back paper. The paper appears to have been hand written by his Sgt. Might have ben his Lt. I don't remember off hand. The paper also lists a Luger but I'm guessing he sold that eons ago. Anyjow his Nazi marked HP has the tangent rear sight but no cut for a stock. I'd say it's in good shape. Maybe I'll dig it out later for a pic. He also had an original holster for it but I couldn't find it after his passing.

 

[Heinz]

I had one of the P35 with a tangent rear sight and a shoulder stock slot back in the 1960s. It was absolutely the least accurate automatic pistol I have ever owned. It soured me on the Browning auto for a long time. Only after I got rid of it did I realize what a great example it was of what the FN gunsmiths could do when forced to produce products for the Nazi occupation. Nothing was out of "specification" but everything was too loose, too rough, or not quite fitted right.
I was on the Xavier University pistol team at that time, and several team members tried it on the indoor range. No one could keep five rounds on the 50-foot indoor target.

I wish I had kept it. But I would caution against shooting one. They were made by experts to fail.

 

[Greyman50]

A point on nazi use of Hi Powers, since it was Not a German design and the Luger and P-38 were guess which they adopted?
Many of the China ones ended up in hands of VC. We had a few such in the USARV museum.

 

[retarmyaviator]

You may want to post your question on the Jan C. Still Luger forum, there is a section specific to German use of non German pistols.

German: Foreign Mfg. Pistols and Holsters. | Jan C. Still Lugerforums

This set of books by Anthony Vanderlinden also covers the subject very well.

book FN Browning Pistols 3rd Edition | wet-dog-publications

 

[LVSteve]

A point on nazi use of Hi Powers, since it was Not a German design and the Luger and P-38 were guess which they adopted?
Many of the China ones ended up in hands of VC. We had a few such in the USARV museum.

The Germans had no problem in using other countries' pistols during WWII. The Japanese were more finicky. Italy produced the Type I for Japan, essentially a Carcano with a double stack magazine in 6.5x50. By all accounts it was an accurate and reliable weapon. So how come shipping crates full of them were found after the Japanese surrender? Story is nobody in the army wanted them because they were not stamped with the chrysanthemum mark of the emperor. In wartime? I'm left shaking my head.

 

[retarmyaviator]

A point on nazi use of Hi Powers, since it was Not a German design and the Luger and P-38 were guess which they adopted?
Many of the China ones ended up in hands of VC. We had a few such in the USARV museum.

The majority of those coming from sources in China were manufactured by Inglis in Canada not FN.