Grafs has it on sale for $19.99 so I ordered 3 pounds before the shortage gets any worse. Thanx in advance.............
Anyone got Herco data for .38 or .44spl +P
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Here is a copy of the Alliant Reloader's Guide for 2003. It has a few recipes for 38 and 44 specials.
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I use Herco and have off and on for years, but it's not very popular these days for some reason. As you've found, current Herco data for handgun cartridges is hard to come by.
It's very similar to Unique in burn rate. I can't remember where I got the Herco data I use and have no idea how old it is so I won't recommend it. I'd start with the 2003 Alliant data someone recommended and go from there. Also consider calling Alliant. Some years back, companies had additional load data they had worked up but did not publish and would provide the data for the asking. Whether or not this is still done in the industry, I don't know.
It's very similar to Unique in burn rate. I can't remember where I got the Herco data I use and have no idea how old it is so I won't recommend it. I'd start with the 2003 Alliant data someone recommended and go from there. Also consider calling Alliant. Some years back, companies had additional load data they had worked up but did not publish and would provide the data for the asking. Whether or not this is still done in the industry, I don't know.
Nothing wrong with Herco powder in the 38/357 loads............
in the old days it is the powder that duplicated factory loads.
It is a little slower burning than Unique and you will need a little more powder to match Unique in fps but it is a keeper.
Have fun.
in the old days it is the powder that duplicated factory loads.
It is a little slower burning than Unique and you will need a little more powder to match Unique in fps but it is a keeper.
Have fun.
OP
What I thought was that since it is a little slower than Unique and some say a little bulkier, I might get more case fill and maybe a cleaner burn. I used to think maybe Herco might be a sleeper in .38spl +P and now I'm interested in trying it in .44 and .41spl.....
gwpercle
Member
Western Powders Burn Rate Chart shows :
(faster)
Unique
Power Pistol
Herco
Blue Dot
(slower)
On the burn rate chart Herco is on the same line
with Norma 3N37 and Tubal Sp8
You can get Unique to burn clean by loading it to develop mid range and +p pressures . It's still a good powder if you load it on the heavier side ...light loads just will not work right .
Gary
(faster)
Unique
Power Pistol
Herco
Blue Dot
(slower)
On the burn rate chart Herco is on the same line
with Norma 3N37 and Tubal Sp8
You can get Unique to burn clean by loading it to develop mid range and +p pressures . It's still a good powder if you load it on the heavier side ...light loads just will not work right .
Gary
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During the "last" shortage, I started using Herco because
Sportsman's Warehouse didn't have anything else.
And because I didn't want to buy another powder measure
for my Dillon 550 I settled on 6 grains of Herco for 38 Spl,
9mm and 45 ACP. That way, I could just swap the measure
between the tool heads.
This works well with my guns.
There is a caveat for those with the +p Fetish. The max
38 Special load in my Speer #9 for the 38 Special with the
158gr LSWC is 4.8gr at 905fps. (Page 383)
But if you go to the 357 Mag loadings the starting load for the
158gr LSWC is 7.5gr @ 990fps. So you have 2.7gr of difference
between the 2 calibers.(Page 388)
With the 9mm in Lyman #44, the max 121gr cast load is 6.1gr
@ 1183fps. I cast 124 grainers and use 6 grains. (Page 116)
For the 45acp, I looked at Speers loading for their 225gr JHP.
they used 7gr as their bottom load @ 872fps.(Page 413). I
shoot cast 230gr RNL with 6gr.
The 38 Special load is a +p. I need to chronograph it so when
Karen gets her panties in a wad I can actually say what speed
it is. I really must be quite unique(catch that) because after
easily 10 thousand+ rounds the last 10 years or so nothing
has blown up(I don't shoot as much as I'd like). I do admit the
load out of the 442 is getting stout but my K frames love it and
the N frames shrug and say, "that all you got?" My problem is
I'm getting old with all the krap that carries with it.
Herco's a good powder. If you can't find data do the old trick,
use Unique's load data and adjust as needed.
Sportsman's Warehouse didn't have anything else.
And because I didn't want to buy another powder measure
for my Dillon 550 I settled on 6 grains of Herco for 38 Spl,
9mm and 45 ACP. That way, I could just swap the measure
between the tool heads.
This works well with my guns.
There is a caveat for those with the +p Fetish. The max
38 Special load in my Speer #9 for the 38 Special with the
158gr LSWC is 4.8gr at 905fps. (Page 383)
But if you go to the 357 Mag loadings the starting load for the
158gr LSWC is 7.5gr @ 990fps. So you have 2.7gr of difference
between the 2 calibers.(Page 388)
With the 9mm in Lyman #44, the max 121gr cast load is 6.1gr
@ 1183fps. I cast 124 grainers and use 6 grains. (Page 116)
For the 45acp, I looked at Speers loading for their 225gr JHP.
they used 7gr as their bottom load @ 872fps.(Page 413). I
shoot cast 230gr RNL with 6gr.
The 38 Special load is a +p. I need to chronograph it so when
Karen gets her panties in a wad I can actually say what speed
it is. I really must be quite unique(catch that) because after
easily 10 thousand+ rounds the last 10 years or so nothing
has blown up(I don't shoot as much as I'd like). I do admit the
load out of the 442 is getting stout but my K frames love it and
the N frames shrug and say, "that all you got?" My problem is
I'm getting old with all the krap that carries with it.
Herco's a good powder. If you can't find data do the old trick,
use Unique's load data and adjust as needed.
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DWalt
Member
For .44 Special, the old Hercules reloading data sheet recommends 10.0 grains with a 180 grain jacketed bullet and 8.0 grains for the 246 grain Lead bullet. I probably wouldn't try to go for +P levels.
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OP
Yes, I'm an old Unique user and don't try to download it. I have a coupla pounds of Unique left besides the one I'm using but this craziness may go on for a bit and I have been meaning to try Herco for a while. The old 6gr 38spl load interests me and I know it used to be in the manuals. One of the things that bothers me about Unique is case fill. I'm thinking of trying to work up to 8.5 in the .44spl and 7.5 or 8gr in the .41spl. I guess we'll see as my powder is supposed to come, tomorrow. Thanx for all your help and we'll see if I wasted my money on this powder...
gwpercle
Member
I don't think you wasted your money ... in the last (2013) shortage I made a list of every handgun powder that could be used and that I had data for and whenever I saw them ...bought several pounds .
My decades old standbys Bullseye, Unique &2400 gave way to some different powders I had never tried before ... Western's Accurate Arms line of powders ( AA#2, AA#5 and AA#7 ) , several Hodgdon's powders , IMR 700X and a few Alliant Powders , like Red Dot & Green Dot that I never would have tried if the shortage hadn't made me do it .
None of the powders were money wasted and now I have many more reloading powder options...and during a shortage ...Options Are Good !!!
Gary
My decades old standbys Bullseye, Unique &2400 gave way to some different powders I had never tried before ... Western's Accurate Arms line of powders ( AA#2, AA#5 and AA#7 ) , several Hodgdon's powders , IMR 700X and a few Alliant Powders , like Red Dot & Green Dot that I never would have tried if the shortage hadn't made me do it .
None of the powders were money wasted and now I have many more reloading powder options...and during a shortage ...Options Are Good !!!
Gary
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Keep in mind that powders have changed a bit, but the legacy Hercules and Alliant loading guides list +P level loads with Herco for the .38 Spcl, but not the .44 Spcl. It would work, but you'd be inventing loads on your own. Not a great idea.
I like and use Herco in my .357/.44M loads. Excellent stuff for cast and jacketed bullets. In the "Specials", it is suitable, but data is not as available as Unique. The Older Speer manuals have quite a bit of data, but it's on the hot end of the current ranges, some more than a little bit. Be careful with that.
If you have a Lee manual, there are Herco loads for both, but they don't list any specific component(s), be careful working up from a starting load. The Specials are way over max before any sign of pressure.
I like and use Herco in my .357/.44M loads. Excellent stuff for cast and jacketed bullets. In the "Specials", it is suitable, but data is not as available as Unique. The Older Speer manuals have quite a bit of data, but it's on the hot end of the current ranges, some more than a little bit. Be careful with that.
If you have a Lee manual, there are Herco loads for both, but they don't list any specific component(s), be careful working up from a starting load. The Specials are way over max before any sign of pressure.
DWalt
Member
Most handgun calibers are very forgiving in what propellants can be used, When it comes right down to it, propellants in the Unique range can be useful in about every one of them, small or large, to produce satisfactory performance. For a stockpile, Unique or similar powders (WSL, Universal, 231, Power Pistol) would be the ones to accumulate against the possibility of hard times. And they can also be used for lighter CF rifle loads and some shotgun loads.
OP
Thanx All
I appreciate your input. My Speer #11 shows 5.1 of Herco with all three of its swaged lead bullets and 6.0 with 158gr JHP. I still think I have seen the 6.0 grain 158gr SWC load in one of the older manuals. My Hornady #II has 6.1gr Unique under a 158gr lead and 5.9gr under a 158gr JHP. Lyman #45 shows 5.4 of Unique but no Herco and I disremembered that was where I had seen a heavy Herco load for .38spl. Must be old-timers.....
My powder came today. 3lbs Herco and 1 of VVN105. so I guess I will start to slowly work my .38 loads up from 5.4gr Herco with 158gr and see what I find out. The .44spl doesn't worry me much with 8.5gr Herco as Brian Pierce lists Unique with that charge with a Keith type bullet at <22K.
Meanwhile I waited too long to stock up on PP and nearly all Alliant powder is out of stock, everywhere. Thank goodness I just opened a can of #2400 and have a spare in the cabinet.......
I appreciate your input. My Speer #11 shows 5.1 of Herco with all three of its swaged lead bullets and 6.0 with 158gr JHP. I still think I have seen the 6.0 grain 158gr SWC load in one of the older manuals. My Hornady #II has 6.1gr Unique under a 158gr lead and 5.9gr under a 158gr JHP. Lyman #45 shows 5.4 of Unique but no Herco and I disremembered that was where I had seen a heavy Herco load for .38spl. Must be old-timers.....
My powder came today. 3lbs Herco and 1 of VVN105. so I guess I will start to slowly work my .38 loads up from 5.4gr Herco with 158gr and see what I find out. The .44spl doesn't worry me much with 8.5gr Herco as Brian Pierce lists Unique with that charge with a Keith type bullet at <22K.
Meanwhile I waited too long to stock up on PP and nearly all Alliant powder is out of stock, everywhere. Thank goodness I just opened a can of #2400 and have a spare in the cabinet.......
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tin can sailor huh?
If you work up some stuff please post it. I love when
the +p folks get worried.
If you work up some stuff please post it. I love when
the +p folks get worried.
gwpercle
Member
This shortage will pass , shelves will slowly replenish ...so don't forget ...
when the getting get's good ...stock deep .
But remember the shortage will happen again in 4 years or so , Be Prepared For It .
Powder and primers in climate controlled conditions will keep for a good 50 years maybe more ...but I know 50 years for sure .
Gary
when the getting get's good ...stock deep .
But remember the shortage will happen again in 4 years or so , Be Prepared For It .
Powder and primers in climate controlled conditions will keep for a good 50 years maybe more ...but I know 50 years for sure .
Gary
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DWalt
Member
My personal experience indicates a good deal longer shelf life than 50 years. Several years ago I came into some cans of duPont pistol powder from sometime in the 1930s. It still performs like new.
OP
Well, my Herco came yesterday and I loaded a few
38spls with 158gr swc over 5.4, 5.6, 5.8 and 6gr of Herco. I loaded 20 of each so I'll try 5 of each in my SP101 before trying them in a 5 shot snub. If they turn out to feel too strong, I will shoot them up in a .357......
38spls with 158gr swc over 5.4, 5.6, 5.8 and 6gr of Herco. I loaded 20 of each so I'll try 5 of each in my SP101 before trying them in a 5 shot snub. If they turn out to feel too strong, I will shoot them up in a .357......
SweetMK
Member
I too am interested in your results,, 20 years ago, I was a 44SPL plinker, then got lazy and switched to rimfire,,
Now, with these times,, I plan on going back to centerfire plinking,,
I even bought a S&W 681 just for 38 plinking,,
OH, yea,, I was on DD873,, which was a close cousin to your tin can,,
OP
I'm a little put off by my Herco loads in .38spl. The lighter loads seemed to do a pretty good job but between the lube and residue the cases didn't seem to want to fall free of the chambers. They seemed to be a bit gummy. The brass wasn't stuck but seemed to be held in by a paste and residue clung to the mouth of the case. The 6.0 loads were pretty strong but not brutal in my LCRX and took only a light touch of my left thumb to ease the cases out of the chamberes much the same as the lighter loads. I didn't crimp these overly firmly and they seemed to be a little dirty. I must admit that I may be a little spoiled to the overly clean VV powders I've been trying lately. I found these loads to be pretty powerful but didn't find them to be painful. I'm going to work on my crimp and see if I can clean them up a little. I was surprised that the labels didn't say new cleaner formula like my Unique does. It does seem a little dirty. The 6.0gr load is one I have been meaning to try for years and It does seem to deliver a high level of power. I'm going to try to tweak it a little and see...........
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