Anyone use the middle finger to pull the trigger?

[shotslow]

I am having trouble hitting with my M&P 45. I hit low left some, and always left. (yes, I know the reasons for this) I do this with most semi-autos. No so much with revolvers. So naturally I am a revolver fan.

I just finished a book, Combat Handgunnery by Massad Ayoob. A shooting method was described in the book where the shooter used the index finger to point along the side of the pistol and uses the middle finger to pull the trigger. DOES ANYONE USE THIS METHOD.

I went to the range and tried this out. It works for me!!! I have small hands and can not really get to the first joint on my index finger. Using the middle finger, I can. I put all rounds on a 8 inch target, rapid fire with a Glock 35 at 10 yards and 9 out of 10 with the M&P 45 from 15 yards. The hits were dispersed on the left and right of center line for both pistols. And I have never hit from 15 yards with the M&P 45.

I plan to use this method at a USPSA competition this week end.

I would appreciate any information on this method of shooting. Thanks.

 

[Krull]

Sound's like an excellent way to bugger up yer finger.....

 

[BrianMajors]

It sounds like there's too much likelihood it will drag on the side of the slide at some point and cause a malfunction.

 

[Casehardn]

Only when it's for the bird.

 

[handgunner356]

I would think it would be much harder to control recoil with this method.

 

[OKFC05]

So naturally I am a revolver fan.

Just what do you think is going to happen to the index figer tip when you try this technique on a revolver and the finger overlaps the cylinder gap?

I've seen this so called "point shooting" technique and tried it on a semi-auto.
I don't care for it:
No control in one-handed shooting.
The afore-mentioned revolver problem.
Inferior control for precision shooting.
Possibility of interfering with slide.
Reduced control of gun for reloads.

Generally appeals most to people who have not learned proper grip and trigger control, and are yanking the trigger. Provides a change to break the "yanking" habit.

 

[DCWilson]

Jack Ruby used this method when he iced Lee Oswald. You can see it in the photo.

The technique is central to some forms of "instinct" shooting. The theory is that the brain calculates exactly where to position your finger if you want to point at something in the distance -- not near it, at it. The second finger pulls the trigger, and you hit what you are -- literally -- pointing at.

Individuals who have lost a forefinger or part of it will necessarily resort to second finger trigger pulls if they can't train themselves to shoot from the other side. I'm not sure I would try it on a semi-auto unless there was a lot of clearance between the slide and the top of an exposed finger laid along the side of the gun under the slide. I believe there are companies that make finger guards you can attach to the side of a semiauto that will prevent such slide/finger collisions.

There is less risk of damage to revolver shooters. With either kind of handgun I would imagine the more powerful the round you are trying to shoot, the less control you will have getting back on target after it goes off. Maybe people with big hands can manage .45 autos, but I suspect I would limit the middle-finger technique to cartridges in the .38 special/9mm class.

No, I don't use the technique. I think it is primarily a close-in defensive technique, and not one that should be pursued in target shooting. But it's tough to argue with success. If you can shoot this way and get better groups than in the traditional way, go for it. I'll be among the first to applaud your success.

 

[gilroy]

If you forgot which gun you had in hand (can happen under stress) and it happened to be a revolver that day, and you reflexively pulled with the middle finger, and pointed the index finger down cylinder... It will hurt really, really bad. Not a good habit to form IMHO.

 

[Skidder]

No, but I know the index finger is called the trigger finger for a reason. Heck if it works for ya go for it.

 

[shotslow]

Thanks for the replies.

I can not use the middle finger with a revolver. Also, my 1911's just do not fit right. The 1911's all have short triggers and extra narrow grips.
I will not be using the middle finger this weekend at the USPSA match. i will have to practice it more.
The fact that I hit to the right is mind boggling to me. Never happened to me before. In a 2 hand hold I do not lose any control of the pistol. I have never hit like that with the M&P 45. It has been my dream for years to error to the right.

BTW, Massad Ayoob, in his book did not speak favorably of this method.

The best outcome would be that this middle finger method allows me to correct trigger errors and I end up using the index finger.

 

[Grog]

I knew a cop who used his middle finger with his issue Glock 22 since he lost the tip of his index finger as a kid.

 

[Zerteck]

I don't know about this middle finger deal, I know of a few uses for it, but I'm not sure this is one of them.

 

[jp zanoya]

While Jack Ruby did use his middle finger on the trigger when he killed Oswald, he did so out of necessity. Most of his right index finger was bitten off during a street fight when he was younger.

 

[LuddhaBuddha]

I always laughed at my friend when he used to do this at the arcade on the shooting games, he has never fired a real gun that I know of.

After reading the question I tried dry firing my 1911 this way, first problem I noticed was that my finger was way too far infront of the trigger for it to feel normal. I use a caspian trik trigger which is about the longest trigger I know of because anything shorter just doesn't feel right when using the proper finger let alone the longer middle finger..

So then I tried the instinct/point shooting method during dry firing, I pointed my finger at something and then looked at the sight picture. At about seven yards my sights kept lining up about 3 inches low and left of what I was pointing at which just doesn't seem like a good thing IMO.

 

[murphydog]

I think if you practice dry-firing with this method, then (very carefully) with live fire, it will work. I have no way to display or link to it, but an online US military marksmanship training course I have taken suggests this be tried for members with short fingers firing the Beretta M9.

Also, in your posts you note the trigger reach of an M & P auto or a Glock is too long for you, but a standard 1911 is too short. Perhaps installing a long trigger on your 1911 is an idea?

 

[shotslow]

A host of replies! Thanks.

My 1911's have extra thin grips and short triggers. I can not use the middle finger method with them and don't need to. I use the pad of my index finger. Just as I gain nothing using the middle finger with a revolver. I realize that having different gripes for different handguns is not a good idea.

Using the middle finger method, stock trigger, I went from unable to hit consistently from 7 yards, only 1 or 2 hits from 12 yards on an 8 inch target to 18 of 20 in the black at 12 yards and the other 2 on the paper shooting as fast as I can. (that did generate some enthusiasm.) BTW, no point shooting, focusing on the front sight.

However, I installed the Apex Tactical hard sear for 45 along with the ultimate striker block. The trigger went from 7 lbs to 3.5 - 4 lbs. The reset is more defined. WOW. So more work on conventional use of the index finger.

I will do some practice with the middle finger method. But it is not a priorty. Although, I would like to meet and talk to anyone who used it regularly. Thanks murphydog. Had to be someone somewhere somehow using it.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I am having trouble hitting with my M&P 45. I hit low left some, and always left. (yes, I know the reasons for this) I do this with most semi-autos. No so much with revolvers. So naturally I am a revolver fan.

I just finished a book, Combat Handgunnery by Massad Ayoob. A shooting method was described in the book where the shooter used the index finger to point along the side of the pistol and uses the middle finger to pull the trigger. DOES ANYONE USE THIS METHOD.

I went to the range and tried this out. It works for me!!! I have small hands and can not really get to the first joint on my index finger. Using the middle finger, I can. I put all rounds on a 8 inch target, rapid fire with a Glock 35 at 10 yards and 9 out of 10 with the M&P 45 from 15 yards. The hits were dispersed on the left and right of center line for both pistols. And I have never hit from 15 yards with the M&P 45.

I plan to use this method at a USPSA competition this week end.

I would appreciate any information on this method of shooting. Thanks.

There are only two uses for a man's middle finger - and neither involves pulling the trigger on your .45!

 

[GOV5]

I am having trouble hitting with my M&P 45. I hit low left some, and always left. (yes, I know the reasons for this) I do this with most semi-autos. No so much with revolvers. So naturally I am a revolver fan.

I just finished a book, Combat Handgunnery by Massad Ayoob. A shooting method was described in the book where the shooter used the index finger to point along the side of the pistol and uses the middle finger to pull the trigger. DOES ANYONE USE THIS METHOD.

I went to the range and tried this out. It works for me!!! I have small hands and can not really get to the first joint on my index finger. Using the middle finger, I can. I put all rounds on a 8 inch target, rapid fire with a Glock 35 at 10 yards and 9 out of 10 with the M&P 45 from 15 yards. The hits were dispersed on the left and right of center line for both pistols. And I have never hit from 15 yards with the M&P 45.

I plan to use this method at a USPSA competition this week end.

I would appreciate any information on this method of shooting. Thanks.

That method is called Point & Shoot. It is widely taught in some circles. It is also part of the Marine Pistol training, or at least it was at one time. Not sure about it nowadays.

But it is VERY accurate, as you found out. It's a great way for concealed carry folks to learn, because we may not have enough time to actually take aim and sight a target.

 

[KyWstJoe]

I read about "point and shoot" and tried it a couple times wothout too much success. I really didn't give it enough time and should really work at it. Perfect for SD.

 

[moshin46]

The point and shoot method works best on the small conceled auto's. Seecamp,p238, baby browning...where you have no sight plan, I would never use this technec on a full size auto.

That said I have use it on a Karr 9mm at 15' an on a rapid fire pulled a 5" group. This is nothing I pratice but try it once and a while. You can also try holding you gun at your hip perpendicular to your sholders and by squaring your sholders to the target you will hit it at 15'

Again you wont do 1" groups but if it is you or the dirtbag you will win.

Moshin46