ARE OUR SUPPLIERS GOUGING US LIKE EVERYONE ELSE?

[Andy Taylor]

I happen to know that MiWall tried to buy $1,000,000 worth of primers, powder and brass from Winchester about three weeks ago. Cash in hand. Winchester said, no we are using all we have, can't sell any.

 

[M29since14]

You mention "customer retention". Explain to me the 15% favorable rating that congress has and their 85% ability to be reelected.

An excellent point, and it does make a comment about that word - patriotism. Apparently, we are just a bunch of whiners.

There is no connect. The two concepts have little or nothing to do with each other, and to that extent, I agree with your Uncle - in principle. In practice, as an employer, you will do whatever your conscience allows. There was a comment made in another place on this forum that in a family business, employees are just so much spare change. There may be widespread truth in that too, but I know of more than one family business that is not run that way. Some employers will, if forced to make a choice, just cash out and leave the grubby market before they can their employees so that they can deal with Mexico and/or Asia. (BTW - Reality is that in ANY business, employees are "resources," and I actually believe this thinking is LESS prevalent in family businesses than in big, publicly-held corporations.)

When you address the issue of capitalism in the context you envision, you will evenutally get into a discussion about the difference between profit and greed. Since this is invariably seen as a matter of degrees, it is highly subjective. My own estimate is that, right now, greed is winning the argument going away.

I too like your Infidel tee-shirt and wonder if something like that is available in a nice, office-compatible golf shirt? Maybe Cajunlawyer and I could put together a small order?

 

[2Loud4You]

Originally posted by dennis40x:
As an example Wal-Mart is still selling WWB 9mm (100) value packs for just under $20.00 plus tax.

Now price the components separately when purchased CCI primers $2.90 per hundred, Starline cases per hundred $16.99, Winchester 115Gr FMJ FB per hundred $10.99, and powder (Winchester 231 powder $18.71 per pound) cost to load one hundred $1.21. Total $32.09 plus tax in component cost to equal one hundred complete rounds.

At 1000 complete rounds the component cost would be $276.06 plus freight and tax in comparison to Wal-Mart $200.00 plus tax.

The component cost was taken from Midway USA. Now go to your local outlet or gun show and compare the selling prices of the components and see the difference.

Now as an example if gasoline is priced at $2.00 per gallon and goes to $4.00 a gallon during a hurricane then that’s considered price gouging and state agencies investigate that. State governments don’t consider that part of the free market system during emergencies.

That said we collectively are being gouged by the producer, distributor, and retailer. What’s more wrong than that we’re do it to each other.

Keep in mind Wal-Mart buys in HUGE bulk and will demand a price cut. On top of that they're willing to barely profit or even lose money on certain items to get you in the store. It's hard to compare a billion dollar company with one MUCH smaller.

 

[dennis40x]

Originally posted by 2Loud4You:
Keep in mind Wal-Mart buys in HUGE bulk and will demand a price cut. On top of that they're willing to barely profit or even lose money on certain items to get you in the store. It's hard to compare a billion dollar company with one MUCH smaller.

Those that compete against Wal-Mart use the same analogy concerning profit margin and selling at loss. I’ve heard the same excuse from Lowes Food Stores here in North Carolina.

Winchester and the other ammunition manufactures aren’t going to sell at a loss to Wal-Mart. They most likely sell at a reduced profit margin. Wal-Mart on the other hand can’t sell every thing at a loss either.

In my example I used Midway USA as an example also. With those two examples go to your local source of reloading supplies and compare their prices. From the manufacture to the final consumer the great in between is profiting to the point of gouging.

 

[tdan]

Plenty of price gouging going on as of late! I am fortunate in that I have a local bullet caster that also charges a reasonable price for components when they are available. I'm pretty set on powder at the moment, but I did have to spring for a pound of Lil Gun recently. He charges $23.95........not unreasonable for a retail outlet. I saw a competitor at this weekends local gun show wanting $28 for the same powder. This guy had some old metal cans of IMR 7828 for the same price. Come on now, these cans were probably at least 10 years old. Another clown was asking $22.00 for a brick of Winchester Wildcat .22lr. I'm hoping these guys bust a nut lugging their unsold wares back to the trailer........I saw the same scenario back in the mid-90's when the assault rifle/high capacity mag ban was enacted. Fools were paying $75 for a 15 round 9mm mag. This nonsense will eventually pass. By the way, my local reloading supply guy tells me that the major bullet/component makers are reluctant to expand capacity........ie....adding shift personnel........as they see this as a short term hoarding phenomenon.

 

[tdan]

On another note.........Now is the time to do a little networking among local shooters to combine orders for components. Buy in bulk and spread those shipping/haz mat charges among your buddies!

 

[redlevel]

Originally posted by tdan: I'm hoping these guys bust a nut lugging their unsold wares back to the trailer........

If they do, then that proves the premise that there can be no such thing as price gouging in a free economy. If they sell their products for what they are asking, then they have discovered "what the market will bear."

That is Capitalism!

 

[2Loud4You]

Originally posted by dennis40x:

Originally posted by 2Loud4You:
Keep in mind Wal-Mart buys in HUGE bulk and will demand a price cut. On top of that they're willing to barely profit or even lose money on certain items to get you in the store. It's hard to compare a billion dollar company with one MUCH smaller.

Those that compete against Wal-Mart use the same analogy concerning profit margin and selling at loss. I’ve heard the same excuse from Lowes Food Stores here in North Carolina.

Winchester and the other ammunition manufactures aren’t going to sell at a loss to Wal-Mart. They most likely sell at a reduced profit margin. Wal-Mart on the other hand can’t sell every thing at a loss either.

In my example I used Midway USA as an example also. With those two examples go to your local source of reloading supplies and compare their prices. From the manufacture to the final consumer the great in between is profiting to the point of gouging.

Notice I said price cut, not that Winchester sold to Wal-Mart at a loss. I'm also not saying Wal-Mart sells everything at a loss BUT some of their products are. Also if they bought a crap load of ammo at a better price than smaller companies then they can sell at a better price and still maintain a profit.

 

[glypnir]

Capitalism if completely unregulated tends to destroy itself very rapidly. You get cartels or outright monopolies that do engage in price gouging because they control the supply essentially completely.

But I don't think that this is going on here.

I think this is half market frenzy, and half political action. It's kind of the opposite of a boycott.

Is it a buycott?

 

[Babalooie]

I think guns and ammo have (at least temporarily) become a commodity like oil, gold or silver, with pricing controlled by the market.

Look at diamonds. They're so plentiful, the DeBeers cartel has to regulate their release to maintain high prices.

 

[Andy Griffith]

It all depends on where your vantage point on the situation is located.

I am kinda miffed that I didn't think to stock up enough to resell at this time and smile all the way to the bank.

I'm just going to shoot black powder until this whole thing levels off. I'm heading to the range this weekend and expect to come back contented and covered in soot and grease.

Got bore butter?

 

[arfmel]

Supply and demand. When the price exceeds what the market will bear, the seller will either have to lower his price or not sell his primers. Evidently this point has not yet been reached.

 

[S&W Fan]

This topic has been on my mind since, oh about a week after the election and prices started going nuts.

My first observation was that, and pardon me for shouting but, NOTHING CHANGED except for the people in office. No new laws,blah blah.

Now did the entire shooting community panic and buy up all available stock? Maybe. Where manufacturers caught unprepared with not enough product? Maybe. I'm not being sarcastic, I don't work in this field so I flat out don't know.

What did happened is that for what ever reasons, it appears that product availability became greatly limited, prices got jacked up and some, repeat some, dealers started gouging their customers. I saw this at the first show in the Denver area the weekend after the election. So screw 'em, the dealers that did that.

Now prices are still high, want a Colt 6920? Plenty of them out there, just at crazy prices-no thank you. I know of one dealer that had the basic S&W AR15 for $1040 shipped, sold them all in about a half hour.

Ammo prices have been up for quite a while, now however the stores/retailers are apparently having a hard time replenishing their stock at this time.

I know of a few dealers that aren't overcharging for their products and those are the ones I will give my money to.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here but I guess I'll just keep most of my money and spend it when I find whatever items I'm looking for at what are, to me at least, acceptable prices.

Good luck to us all.

 

[2Loud4You]

S&Wfan, I understand where you're coming from but I see the view point of get it while you can. I have a friend who said "If a new law is passed I'll go get my gun then." Well it's too late then because I can all but guarantee the shelves will be bare. I recently bought a Sig 556 and while I paid a few hundred more than what people paid this time last year the fact is prices are going up. I agree don't buy from a shop or supplier who's raping prices but I wasn't willing to sit around and watch prices go higher without making a move either.