Are the primers in Winchester factory ammo the same as WSP's?

[Lou_the_welder]

That's the question. Are the Winchester primers the same ones they use in their ammo?

I took a gun out that usually runs good with Winchester primers and had about 10-15 ftf's with factory ammo. 9mm 124gr "nato" WWB.

I did notice the factory ammo had a more goldish color to the primers ,whereas the WSP's have a dirty brass color to them. Maybe that's the difference?

What say ye'!

Comments and speculations welcome!

Lou

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I can't say for sure because I have never seen it in print but what primers would they use if not their own?

 

[alwslate]

If the 9mm "Nato" 124 gr FMJ ammo is true Nato spec it probably uses a
special primer that is harder than the primers in Winchester commercial
ammo. Primers sold to handloaders are most likely the same as those
in commercial ammo.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

2 Questions : Is the "Factory, NATO" ammo marked on the headstamp with the "plus in the circle" NATO mark? If so there should be a numbers and a letter code for the year and maker. What are they?

All the 9mm Winchester NATO ammo (White box) I bought by the case, when I owned my MAC-10 were 115 grain. I bought this in the 80's and 90's and still have a few hundred rounds. It is still bright and clean, with the yellow of the primer the same as the case body.

Much older Winchester ammo had a copper colored primer (like in the 50's and before!) It has a rounded or domed appearance. I have never seen any Winchester 9mm like that. Could these be reloads? And lastly and of lowest probability, Could these be imported fakes (like the fake Chinese 30 Carbine with the berdan primers and a 1944 headstamp)?

At this point, I recommend you clean your gun with a bore cleaner for "corrosive primers" (It Stinks!), you can also use hot soapy water and scrub everything! Then oil everything! With the exception of US made 30 Carbine ammo, all primers before 1950 (both military and commercial) were mercury (nasty corrosive) or chloride based (leaves a salt residue and mildly corrosive) chemicals. All US made ammo (except aluminum cased Blazer), is boxer primed and has one flash hole! All Berdan primed ammo has 2 or 3 flash holes and should be considered "Corrosive" to some degree!

As you can tell I find this very interesting!

Ivan

 

[Lou_the_welder]

2 Questions : Is the "Factory, NATO" ammo marked on the headstamp with the "plus in the circle" NATO mark? If so there should be a numbers and a letter code for the year and maker. What are they?

All the 9mm Winchester NATO ammo (White box) I bought by the case, when I owned my MAC-10 were 115 grain. I bought this in the 80's and 90's and still have a few hundred rounds. It is still bright and clean, with the yellow of the primer the same as the case body.

Much older Winchester ammo had a copper colored primer (like in the 50's and before!) It has a rounded or domed appearance. I have never seen any Winchester 9mm like that. Could these be reloads? And lastly and of lowest probability, Could these be imported fakes (like the fake Chinese 30 Carbine with the berdan primers and a 1944 headstamp)?

At this point, I recommend you clean your gun with a bore cleaner for "corrosive primers" (It Stinks!), you can also use hot soapy water and scrub everything! Then oil everything! With the exception of US made 30 Carbine ammo, all primers before 1950 (both military and commercial) were mercury (nasty corrosive) or chloride based (leaves a salt residue and mildly corrosive) chemicals. All US made ammo (except aluminum cased Blazer), is boxer primed and has one flash hole! All Berdan primed ammo has 2 or 3 flash holes and should be considered "Corrosive" to some degree!

As you can tell I find this very interesting!

Ivan

Good morning all! Just got up. Here are some pics that I should have taken yesterday.
These were brand new, purchased at Walmart. Box of 150 rounds.
These do not fire like just the plain Jane WSP.
I took some close up pics of the primer heads.
One flash hole.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I remember my Winchester Nato cases being a little cleaner inside, than yours.
Might have been a different plant or maker or Lot......... ?

"GI" ammo can be very different in spec's, being made by so many companies
and the time that it is put out.

Those look like 1961 loaded cases.
That is 58 years................................

 

[Bosquebass]

What you fellows are reading as "61" I am seeing as "19". So maybe made this year?

 

[Lou_the_welder]

What you fellows are reading as "61" I am seeing as "19". So maybe made this year?

That would make perfect sense . And also purchased a month ago from Walmart.
I didnt take pics of the rounds as they were new, but they looked gold in color. Super clean. Not something that was 50 years old. So, maybe "19" does mean 2019.
But why the difference between primers in the same company's brand name ammo???

Also curious if anyone has had the same experiences , suffering from the primers being too hard or difficult to fire??

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I agree that is current, ammo as in 2019. So all that I said about corrosive and berdan primers, while true, just doesn't apply to your ammo. Like most military ammo these have "crimped primers", for reloading purposes, you'll need to remove that little ring around the primer.

As to your question: Do these rounds have the same primers as the commercial ammo? Most likely! Who makes their primers besides themselves? Anyone they want to pay! I have noticed that sometimes the primers they sell us are nickel plated and sometimes not. I don't think they are different specs, just made at a different time or for fancier looking ammo (brass case vs. nickel case), and what ever is an overrun get boxed up and sold to us.

As to the 10-15 failure to fire rounds, call Customer Service, have the Lot numbers from the box ready, and they should take care of you! If they want you to send them in have them give you a UPS shipping prepaid label! (You cannot ship even dud ammo!) They may just send you a coupon for so much off your next Win ammo purchase, that is as good as it is going to get.

Side note: Lapua Ammo in Finland uses Federal primers in ALL their small arms ammo-except 6.5x55 Match is still Berdan primed.

Ivan