Armornite mystery

[deadduck357]

I have had a 15-22 A1 for a few year now (3) and really love it and its been very reliable and accurate. I have never like the quad-rail forend though and do like the new version with the MLok. So when I was checking out S&W's website I notice they don't refer to the barrel as being Melonite anymore, just corrosion resistant. When I bought mine it stated Melonite. At some point I have even seen them refer QPQ.

So today I called S&W and got directed to technical and when asked what was this corrosion resistant finish he said it was Armornite, a sprayed on nitrocarburizing finish. He also said they couldn't use the word Melonite because it was trademarked. I told him it couldn't be nitrocarburizing because that process is not sprayed on, it is a case hardening treatment to the metal. He said all he knew was that Armornite was sprayed on and heat treated. I asked if there was anyone more knowledgeable available to answer the question of what specifically was Armornite and he said no.

Anyone here have any facts about this mystery Armornite "finish"?

 

[psjoe]

Hi-
From S&W off of the industry section of ar15.com

Barrel life of sport? - AR15.COM

"Yes, it's a Nitride based interior and exterior finish that changes the properties of the metal, making it harder and more durable. (Previously referred to as Melonite). The process is the same, only the name has changed.
Thanks, S&W "

 

[psjoe]

I also called S&W. Armornite is used on M&P15-22 and the barrel is CHF too!

I let them know that the spec sheet and website does not state this for the M&P15-22, they will correct it.

The catalog does have ref. to Armornite on Pg 29 for 15-22:
"Armornite® fi nish is a hardened nitride fi nish that provides:
Enhanced corrosion resistance, greatly improved wear resistance,
decreased surface roughness, reduced light refl ection and increased
surface lubricity. Armornite is used on many S&W and M&P products
imparting a high level of protection internally and externally where applied."

 

[deadduck357]

Thank you PSJoe, what I wanted to know. S&W CS and especially Technical Support should be more informed of their own products. They shouldn't state "a sprayed on finish and nitrocarburizing/nitriding" in the same sentence - two totally different processes.

Thanks again.

 

[Fastbolt]

I've been told (during armorer classes) that S&W Customer Service might have anywhere from 18-30+ people answering calls on any given day. Some of those people might be longtime employees who used to work in firearms production, and some of them might've come over from their retail store, or another non-gun dept, and have never even fired a gun. Luck of the draw (including if the call is transferred to another call taker). BTDT.

We were told a few years ago in one of our M&P Pistol armorer recert classes that S&W decided the best way to have control over the nitriding process was to stop using an outside vendor and do it themselves. They had been using a Melonite Salt bath nitriding (also known as ferritic nitrocarburizing FNC) done by a vendor for some years. It first appeared, in my memory, on the Sigma and the Militar models (international sales).

When I masked for some details during a class one time, a rep looked into it and later got back to me to say it was a Melonite QP (Quench Polish) hardening process. The first time I'd asked he'd also said something about an applied "finish", but later corrected himself after making some calls elsewhere within the company. Apparently, the QPQ (second Quench applied) was for carbon steel, but the stainless steels used in the S&W guns required the QP version to not adversely affect the existing corrosion resistance properties of stainless steels.

Anyway, S&W finally decided to invest the money to acquire the equipment and set things up to do the process in-house. I don't know if they chose a Salt bath FNC or a Gas FNC. Considering the safety and increased cost issues that can be involved with salt bath FNC, if I had to guess, I'd suspect that S&W probably went with a Gas FNC, using a furnace versus a bath process. Less chemicals and clean up.

Whichever process they decided to use, this gave them better control of the process, and also meant they no longer had to pay royalties for using a process trademarked by another company.

I vaguely remember when they were in the process of discontinuing to use the Melonite QP, as they briefly named the process used on the Bodyguard 380 something else in the spec sheets before they decided on Armornite.

 

[Codykit]

Need help on old revolver can someone point me to right place

 

[Fastbolt]

Need help on old revolver can someone point me to right place

One of the sub forums in the Revolvers section?

 

[rosewood]

I supposed that gas FNC fastbolt mentioned might be considered as a spray on finish depending on who you ask.

Rosewood

 

[jimbo728]

I supposed that gas FNC fastbolt mentioned might be considered as a spray on finish depending on who you ask.

Rosewood

Not spray on. It is a heat treat process.
Jim

 

[Fastbolt]

Perhaps.

However, don't overlook the possibility that since the Physical Vapor Deposition (PVD) process is also used for some models, it wouldn't be surprising if everyone working within the company (especially if not directly involved in producing them) might not understand the difference.

 

[Steve912]

The trade names, and casual descriptions of the process--clips,
magazines, Xerox, photocopy...
Close enough to understand the intention. If you want
to learn more, search ferritic nitrocarburizing or QPQ. Readily available
info.

 

[Fastbolt]

Also, while the older chemical salt bath nitriding process (whether the Quench, Quench-Polish or Quench-Polish-Quench treatments) could yield a nice gloss black surface, the increasingly used alternative of Gas nitriding yields a charcoal gray surface. Also, the hardness can be bumped up a little with the gas surface hardening treatment.

Here's one company I grabbed at random who compares the processes:
THE CASE FOR CHOOSING FNC WITH POST OX

The days of using ferritic nitrocarburizing chemical baths, with their toxic chemicals and handling, cleanup and disposal requirements is being replaced with safer alternatives. Glock switched from the original tenifer to what they generally refer to as "nitration" ("gas nitriding") a few years ago. Less costly and more environmentally friendly.

Easier, less expensive and just as good, if not a little better. What's the downside?

 

[rosewood]

Not spray on. It is a heat treat process.
Jim

I understand that, but when it is said to be a gas operation done in some sort of cabinet instead of a bath, the non-technical type might call that spray on.